DOI Seite / Zitierlink:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.45394#0015
TESTIMONY OF L. P. Di CESNOLA.
13
Q. Have you made diligent search for them ?
A. I did all that I possibly could do—all that
possibly could be done.
Q. Do you remember anything said by the
plaintiff about cartage ?
A. I don’t know whether he said anything,
sir; but I had in my mind, and I have still, that
I had a bill for cartage which seemed to me very
large.
Q. You had stated in your statement to the
Executive Committee that there was a bill for
cartage of £363—what have you to say about
that ?
A. Well, I think, that after consideration that
must be a mistake. It is too large an amount to
be only for cartage. The cartage was one of the
items, but whatever else it was on the same bill
it amounted to £363. I am not able to-day to
say.
Q. Whatever bills he presented you paid, did
you ? A. I did.
Q. Will you look at this book, and particu-
larly at the account in your name on pages 5 and
6, and state when you first saw the book and
when you first saw that account (showing wit-
ness plaintiff’s ledger)—when did you first see
that book or that account ?
(2213) A. The first time I saw this book was in
court.
Q. On this trial ?
A. On this trial. I never saw it before.
Q. Did he exhibit that to you in London ?
A. No, sir.
Q. Or any part of it ?
A. Never.
Q. Did you ask the plaintiff prior to drawing
the check on Morgan which you gave to him, or
at any time, to double his bill, or to make out a
statement for the double amount of his bill?
A. Never.
Q. Did you know of any such thing being
done ?
A. Never.
Q. Have you stated all that the Duke of Argyle
said to you about the collection in connection
with the British Museum ?
A. In London or in New York ?
Q. In London.
A. He said something to the effect that the col-
lection had not been called to his attention, and
that the collection had only been called to his
attention by the papers and not by any other
sources; that the collection was going away from
London; that he was very sorry; that he was one
of the Trustees of the British Museum and never
had heard of it before. He gave me his card in
going out, and it was then for the first time that
I found out that his name was Argyle. That is
the way I made his acquaintance.
Q. Did he afterwards, and before the publica-
tion of the plaintiff in the Art Amateur, make
further statements to you on the subject ?
(2214) A. Yes, sir, he did; but he made them
in New York.
Q. State what he says ?
Mr. Bangs: in New’ York ?
Mr. Choate: Yes, sir; in New York.
Mr. Bangs: I object to what the Duke of Argyle
said in New York. It must be of no conse-
quence.
Q. Do you remember any statements made to
you by Mr. Birch in London before you left ?
A. Ido.
Q. State them ?
Objected to by Mr. Bangs.
Mr. Choate: This is for the purpose of yroving
the statement at the top of the 9th page of the
pleadings.
Mr. Bangs : Then it is assumed that Dr. Birch
is either an authority of the British museum or a
distinguished archaeologist and a trustee. Has
that been testified to that he has been either ?
Mr. Choate: It has been proved that he is in
charge of the entire Oriental department of the
British museum.
Mr. Bangs: Well, is he an authority?
Mr. Choate: Their own depositions prove that
lie is the person to whom, or before whom, a pro-
position of such a collection would pass.
The Court : I suppose he is one of the authori-
ties of the museum; that is an authority in the
sense of making bargains.
(2215) Q. Mr. Birch is an eminent archaeolo-
gist, isn’t he ?
A. Most certainly, perhaps the best Egyptolo-
gist existing to-day.
Q. State what he said on the subject ?
A. Dr. Burch said to me this: “I see that we
are getting a great deal of abuse—the British
museum authorities—because your collection was
not bought by us, but that collection has never
been brought to my knowledge, and I never knew
that it was for sale to the British museum.” I
said: “Well, I am astonished; my agent was
authorized to do so;” but he said: “I am the
proper person to whom the first steps to be taken
—the preliminary steps as he called them—in
order to bring the matter before the trustees of
the British museum should be brought tome; and
as most of your collection represent Oriental art
and very little Greek—pure Greek—art; and,
therefore, nothing was said to me in any way
whatsoever, personally or officially.” That was
the remark Dr. Birch made to me.
Q. Have you stated all that you recollect that
he said ?
A. That is substantially all.
Q. Did he, in that conversation, make any re-
ference to the statement in his letter to you of
the 12th of March previous ?
A. I don’t remember.
Q. Do you remember any statement made by
Mr. Newton of the British museum on the sub.
ject before you left London ?
A. I do not.
(2216) Q. Did the plaintiff in London mention
to you any efforts made by him to sell to the
British Museum ?
A. He told me that he had gone to Mr. New-
ton and tried to induce Mr. Newton to recom-
mend the purchase of my collection ; but whether
he did or not, I don’t know.
Mi'. Bangs: I object to the last part of the an-
answer: “’But whether he did or not I don’t
know.”
Mr. Choate: Strike it out.
Q. When did you first see this check for
£2,800 which has just been shown you here ;
when did you first see it after you drew it it and
delivered it to the plaintiff ?
A. Some time in the Summer of 1881, while I
was in Europe.
Q. Where and by whom was it shown to you?
A. I don't remember now whether it was from
Mr. Morgan or one of his agents.
Exhibit 136.-Nov. 27, ’83.—E.C.K.
To Messrs. J. S. Morgan & Co.,
22 Old Broad street.
London, 15 November, 1872.
Please pay Messrs. Rollin & Feuardent or
Bearer, the sum of Two thousand eight hundred
pounds and charge same to my account.
£2,800:—:—. L.'P. Di Cesnola.
Stamped on face, “London & Westminster
Bank, Lothbury.”
Written in pencil on face, “ L. & W. ac. F.
Burt &Co., correct.”
Stamped on face “Paid.”
Two parallel lines are crossed in ink over the
face, with the words “ & Co.” between them.
Revenue stamp on face on which is written
“15 Nov., 1872.”
Exhibit 137.
(P/2216.)
[No. 24537.] London, 16 Nov., 1872.
The London Joint Stock Bank,
5 Princes’ street, Mansion House.
Pay to --- 9,119,-, or bearer,
two thousand eight hundred pounds (£2,800 0. 0.)
J. S. Morgan & Co.
Stamped on face “ London and Westminster
Bank, Lothbury.”
Two .parallel lines drawn over face of check
in ink, and between them the words “& Co.”
[Penny stamp.]
Q. Did Mr. Morgan subsequently send it to
you here?
A. At my request; yes, sir.
Q. Did you not state in your communication
to the Trustees that the £2,800 check was given
by Morgan to you?
Mr. Bangs: One moment. The lettei- shows
about that.
Q. Morgan’s own check for £2,800 was given
to you ?
Mr. Bangs: The communication will show7 it.
Mr. Choate: I have a right to call his attention
to it.
Mr. Bangs: That is not the right way to call
his attention to it.
Mr. Choate (reading from pleadings): “And
when Mr. Junius Morgan gave him, the plaintiff,
his check for the amount of his bill.”
Mr. Bangs: That is not the whole of it. “ But
I was glad to get rid of him ” (Reads to the end
of that sentence.)
(2217) Q. Was that your recollection or im-
pression at the time you made this statement?
A. It was.
Q. Do you remember the statement in the
plaintiff’s first communication in the Art Ama-
teur, I think, that Mr. Morgan, a London banker,
gave him a check for the value of the collec-
tion?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you remember the statement?
A. I remember the statement, quite so; but it
is not correct.
13
Q. Have you made diligent search for them ?
A. I did all that I possibly could do—all that
possibly could be done.
Q. Do you remember anything said by the
plaintiff about cartage ?
A. I don’t know whether he said anything,
sir; but I had in my mind, and I have still, that
I had a bill for cartage which seemed to me very
large.
Q. You had stated in your statement to the
Executive Committee that there was a bill for
cartage of £363—what have you to say about
that ?
A. Well, I think, that after consideration that
must be a mistake. It is too large an amount to
be only for cartage. The cartage was one of the
items, but whatever else it was on the same bill
it amounted to £363. I am not able to-day to
say.
Q. Whatever bills he presented you paid, did
you ? A. I did.
Q. Will you look at this book, and particu-
larly at the account in your name on pages 5 and
6, and state when you first saw the book and
when you first saw that account (showing wit-
ness plaintiff’s ledger)—when did you first see
that book or that account ?
(2213) A. The first time I saw this book was in
court.
Q. On this trial ?
A. On this trial. I never saw it before.
Q. Did he exhibit that to you in London ?
A. No, sir.
Q. Or any part of it ?
A. Never.
Q. Did you ask the plaintiff prior to drawing
the check on Morgan which you gave to him, or
at any time, to double his bill, or to make out a
statement for the double amount of his bill?
A. Never.
Q. Did you know of any such thing being
done ?
A. Never.
Q. Have you stated all that the Duke of Argyle
said to you about the collection in connection
with the British Museum ?
A. In London or in New York ?
Q. In London.
A. He said something to the effect that the col-
lection had not been called to his attention, and
that the collection had only been called to his
attention by the papers and not by any other
sources; that the collection was going away from
London; that he was very sorry; that he was one
of the Trustees of the British Museum and never
had heard of it before. He gave me his card in
going out, and it was then for the first time that
I found out that his name was Argyle. That is
the way I made his acquaintance.
Q. Did he afterwards, and before the publica-
tion of the plaintiff in the Art Amateur, make
further statements to you on the subject ?
(2214) A. Yes, sir, he did; but he made them
in New York.
Q. State what he says ?
Mr. Bangs: in New’ York ?
Mr. Choate: Yes, sir; in New York.
Mr. Bangs: I object to what the Duke of Argyle
said in New York. It must be of no conse-
quence.
Q. Do you remember any statements made to
you by Mr. Birch in London before you left ?
A. Ido.
Q. State them ?
Objected to by Mr. Bangs.
Mr. Choate: This is for the purpose of yroving
the statement at the top of the 9th page of the
pleadings.
Mr. Bangs : Then it is assumed that Dr. Birch
is either an authority of the British museum or a
distinguished archaeologist and a trustee. Has
that been testified to that he has been either ?
Mr. Choate: It has been proved that he is in
charge of the entire Oriental department of the
British museum.
Mr. Bangs: Well, is he an authority?
Mr. Choate: Their own depositions prove that
lie is the person to whom, or before whom, a pro-
position of such a collection would pass.
The Court : I suppose he is one of the authori-
ties of the museum; that is an authority in the
sense of making bargains.
(2215) Q. Mr. Birch is an eminent archaeolo-
gist, isn’t he ?
A. Most certainly, perhaps the best Egyptolo-
gist existing to-day.
Q. State what he said on the subject ?
A. Dr. Burch said to me this: “I see that we
are getting a great deal of abuse—the British
museum authorities—because your collection was
not bought by us, but that collection has never
been brought to my knowledge, and I never knew
that it was for sale to the British museum.” I
said: “Well, I am astonished; my agent was
authorized to do so;” but he said: “I am the
proper person to whom the first steps to be taken
—the preliminary steps as he called them—in
order to bring the matter before the trustees of
the British museum should be brought tome; and
as most of your collection represent Oriental art
and very little Greek—pure Greek—art; and,
therefore, nothing was said to me in any way
whatsoever, personally or officially.” That was
the remark Dr. Birch made to me.
Q. Have you stated all that you recollect that
he said ?
A. That is substantially all.
Q. Did he, in that conversation, make any re-
ference to the statement in his letter to you of
the 12th of March previous ?
A. I don’t remember.
Q. Do you remember any statement made by
Mr. Newton of the British museum on the sub.
ject before you left London ?
A. I do not.
(2216) Q. Did the plaintiff in London mention
to you any efforts made by him to sell to the
British Museum ?
A. He told me that he had gone to Mr. New-
ton and tried to induce Mr. Newton to recom-
mend the purchase of my collection ; but whether
he did or not, I don’t know.
Mi'. Bangs: I object to the last part of the an-
answer: “’But whether he did or not I don’t
know.”
Mr. Choate: Strike it out.
Q. When did you first see this check for
£2,800 which has just been shown you here ;
when did you first see it after you drew it it and
delivered it to the plaintiff ?
A. Some time in the Summer of 1881, while I
was in Europe.
Q. Where and by whom was it shown to you?
A. I don't remember now whether it was from
Mr. Morgan or one of his agents.
Exhibit 136.-Nov. 27, ’83.—E.C.K.
To Messrs. J. S. Morgan & Co.,
22 Old Broad street.
London, 15 November, 1872.
Please pay Messrs. Rollin & Feuardent or
Bearer, the sum of Two thousand eight hundred
pounds and charge same to my account.
£2,800:—:—. L.'P. Di Cesnola.
Stamped on face, “London & Westminster
Bank, Lothbury.”
Written in pencil on face, “ L. & W. ac. F.
Burt &Co., correct.”
Stamped on face “Paid.”
Two parallel lines are crossed in ink over the
face, with the words “ & Co.” between them.
Revenue stamp on face on which is written
“15 Nov., 1872.”
Exhibit 137.
(P/2216.)
[No. 24537.] London, 16 Nov., 1872.
The London Joint Stock Bank,
5 Princes’ street, Mansion House.
Pay to --- 9,119,-, or bearer,
two thousand eight hundred pounds (£2,800 0. 0.)
J. S. Morgan & Co.
Stamped on face “ London and Westminster
Bank, Lothbury.”
Two .parallel lines drawn over face of check
in ink, and between them the words “& Co.”
[Penny stamp.]
Q. Did Mr. Morgan subsequently send it to
you here?
A. At my request; yes, sir.
Q. Did you not state in your communication
to the Trustees that the £2,800 check was given
by Morgan to you?
Mr. Bangs: One moment. The lettei- shows
about that.
Q. Morgan’s own check for £2,800 was given
to you ?
Mr. Bangs: The communication will show7 it.
Mr. Choate: I have a right to call his attention
to it.
Mr. Bangs: That is not the right way to call
his attention to it.
Mr. Choate (reading from pleadings): “And
when Mr. Junius Morgan gave him, the plaintiff,
his check for the amount of his bill.”
Mr. Bangs: That is not the whole of it. “ But
I was glad to get rid of him ” (Reads to the end
of that sentence.)
(2217) Q. Was that your recollection or im-
pression at the time you made this statement?
A. It was.
Q. Do you remember the statement in the
plaintiff’s first communication in the Art Ama-
teur, I think, that Mr. Morgan, a London banker,
gave him a check for the value of the collec-
tion?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you remember the statement?
A. I remember the statement, quite so; but it
is not correct.