DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0080
Mr. C. H.
Bompas.
30 Dec., 1907.
74 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :
16168. Then is it not worth while to bring the
villagers in?—Of course the expenditure does not
concern the ordinary village ; you cannot have a road
to every village.
16169. Is the money spent on roads entirely ?—-The
road fund is for roads.
16170. And do the villagers provide themselves with
their ordinary wants—water-supply, and such like ?—
Yes, and they make their own roads, such as they are.
16171 That is to say those which you do not make ?
They make village roads. They are accustomed to
being useful, and if they get an order to make a
village road, they make it.
16172. (Mr. Dutt.) Is there a special grant given
for Education in the Santhal Parganas?—Yes, we
have funds for education too.
16173. Is it a lump sum allotted for the whole dis-
trict ?—Yes. The District Officer distributes it. There
is a District Committee of Public Instruction. It
does not trouble the Deputy Commissioner very much.
16174. You think some districts are too large in
area ?—Some are unmanageable.
16175. Is it not possible to carry on the work of
those districts by adding to the number of officers ?—
You can cut a district into two, or you can cut the
work into two and try the old system of having
separate Magistrates and Collectors.
16176. Are some of the sub-divisions very large in
area ?—The Sadar sub-divisions will have to be cut
into two directly they can afford to have Sadar Sub-
Divisional Officers.
16177. Do you favour the idea of having a Sub-
Divisional Officer for the Sadar sub-division ?—I think
it is essential all over Bengal. They are only waiting
for men in order to do it.
16178. At present there is no local Revenue Officer
between the Sub-Divisional Officer and the people, and
the only medium is the police?—Most sub-divisions
have a kanungo I think.
16179. Does he live at the headquarters of the sub-
division ?—Yes.
16180. Would the work in Bengal be improved by
having local officers and entrusting them with revenue
work, each in his own circle, and also with the work
of looking after the village panchayats and village
matters ?—-What sort of revenue work do you refer to ?
16181. Any work in the circle?—What sized circle?
16182. I leave that to you. Would it be possible
to create such circles—dividing a sub-division into
two or three circles and placing a Sub-Deputy Collector,
or an officer in a similar position, in charge of each,
and then entrusting him with all the work within his
circle ?—I do not think there would be enough work
for him to do unless you gave him both civil and
criminal powers.
16183. If you gave him both civil and criminal
powers might that plan answer ?—It depends ; I think
if you made him a regular munsifi it would tend to
increase litigation enormously.
16184. If he were given criminal powers and relieved
the Sub-Divisional Officer to that extent what would you
say ?—Speaking broadly, he would be a sort of Sub-
Divisional Officer, and the more officers you have the
better the administration, but I suppose the expense
would be prohibitive. I would like to have a Sub-
Divisional Officer for every thana, but it is a question
of money.
16185. Except on the ground of expense it is an
arrangement which might improve the administration ?
—The more Government officers you have, the more
efficient the administration would be.
16186. With regard to localising Services to par-
ticular divisions, would you localise all the men in the
Provincial Service, Munsiffs, Deputy Collectors and so
on ?—Certainly.
16187. In a district or in a division ?—As far as
possible I would say that a man should stay in his dis-
trict, and I would not, except under very exceptional
circumstances, take him away from a division in which
he knew the language and the manners and customs.
In the Santhal Parganas I happened, by some chance,
to have a Deputy Collector who had been at head-
quarters for 20 years, which was most useful, for there
is hardly ever an officer who can tell one what has
happened three years ago.
16188. (Mr. Hichens.) Two objections have been
urged against keeping a person too long in one district,
one of them being that he is likely to get stale ; what have
you to say as to that ?—I thing the evil of a man being
in a district for a short time, knowing he is only going
to be there for a short time, and thereby prevented
from taking an interest in his work, is much greater than
any evil which might result from a man getting tired
of thq work. Speaking generally, the more you know
about a district, the more interested you are in it.
16189. Perhaps also you would say that even if a
man got stale he would get over it ?—I think a man
would be prevented from getting stale by taking fre-
quent short leave, which I am much in favour of.
16190. The other objection is that a man’s experience
would be, comparatively speaking, limited if he were
kept in one district, what do you say as to that ?—He
certainly would have a little experience of the other
districts in his division. During the course of his
service it would be found impossible to keep him in
one district, but in the division he ought to have ample
experience, and I think it better that he should know
one class of work thoroughly than that he should get
the smattering which he gets by being shifted from
one end of the province to the other.
16191. Would you say that the mere fact of suddenly
transferring a man from one end of a province to the
other gives him a wide experience which is of value ?—
I do not think it is very valuable.
16192. The fact being that the matters which come
under his notice and control are very varied and wide,
and that in itself gives him a wide experience ?—I think
any district in Bengal provides quite enough for one
man to think about.
16193. With regard to your statement that you think
one appeal sufficient, what is your opinion as to what
has been told us, namely, that it is part of the tradition
of the country that a man should be able to appeal to
the supreme authority, and that it would be impossible
to eradicate it ?—I think in the imagination of the
people that the supreme Head of the Government may
be taken to be, first, the District Officer, and, secondly,
the King on his throne in England ; they do not think
that a.Lieutenant-Governor is any nearer approach to
the supreme authority than a Commissioner or the
Viceroy, and if they once have the power of appealing
to all of them they go up the whole scale.
16194. But is the tradition of the existence.of a
right of appeal to the supreme Head one to which it
would be desirable to run contrary ?—No, I do not
think so. I think we have very largely taught the
people to appeal from department to department, and
the traditional feeling would only lead them to apply
to the Emperor in England. You do get people send-
ing home letters to the King.
16195. Are you in favour of creating substantially
smaller provinces ?—I should like to see it come.
16196. Would your idea be to have a considerable
number of, say, Chief Commissionerships?—Or in-
dependent provinces ; it would not matter what you
called them.
16197. You base your idea rather on the fact that
there is a large and diverse population than on the size
of the areas involved ?—Yes ; if you get a homogeneous
population, it does not much matter what the area is.
16198. Why do you lay such stress on the homo-
geneity of population ?—Because there is no harm in
passing an order that will be appropriate to a large
population, and you may get such an order where the
population is homogeneous, but where you have a
heterogeneous population, it is seldom that you can
pass such an order.
16199. If you take Switzerland, South Africa, and
many other countries, you find the populations are not
homogeneous, but at the same time they have one
Government which to all appearance works satis-
factorily,—why cannot you do that here ?—I do not
think you will find many pacts of the world where
there is a population of 60,000,000 governed by one
Government; if you take Australia with its few
millions, it has a dozen or more independent Chambers.
Bompas.
30 Dec., 1907.
74 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :
16168. Then is it not worth while to bring the
villagers in?—Of course the expenditure does not
concern the ordinary village ; you cannot have a road
to every village.
16169. Is the money spent on roads entirely ?—-The
road fund is for roads.
16170. And do the villagers provide themselves with
their ordinary wants—water-supply, and such like ?—
Yes, and they make their own roads, such as they are.
16171 That is to say those which you do not make ?
They make village roads. They are accustomed to
being useful, and if they get an order to make a
village road, they make it.
16172. (Mr. Dutt.) Is there a special grant given
for Education in the Santhal Parganas?—Yes, we
have funds for education too.
16173. Is it a lump sum allotted for the whole dis-
trict ?—Yes. The District Officer distributes it. There
is a District Committee of Public Instruction. It
does not trouble the Deputy Commissioner very much.
16174. You think some districts are too large in
area ?—Some are unmanageable.
16175. Is it not possible to carry on the work of
those districts by adding to the number of officers ?—
You can cut a district into two, or you can cut the
work into two and try the old system of having
separate Magistrates and Collectors.
16176. Are some of the sub-divisions very large in
area ?—The Sadar sub-divisions will have to be cut
into two directly they can afford to have Sadar Sub-
Divisional Officers.
16177. Do you favour the idea of having a Sub-
Divisional Officer for the Sadar sub-division ?—I think
it is essential all over Bengal. They are only waiting
for men in order to do it.
16178. At present there is no local Revenue Officer
between the Sub-Divisional Officer and the people, and
the only medium is the police?—Most sub-divisions
have a kanungo I think.
16179. Does he live at the headquarters of the sub-
division ?—Yes.
16180. Would the work in Bengal be improved by
having local officers and entrusting them with revenue
work, each in his own circle, and also with the work
of looking after the village panchayats and village
matters ?—-What sort of revenue work do you refer to ?
16181. Any work in the circle?—What sized circle?
16182. I leave that to you. Would it be possible
to create such circles—dividing a sub-division into
two or three circles and placing a Sub-Deputy Collector,
or an officer in a similar position, in charge of each,
and then entrusting him with all the work within his
circle ?—I do not think there would be enough work
for him to do unless you gave him both civil and
criminal powers.
16183. If you gave him both civil and criminal
powers might that plan answer ?—It depends ; I think
if you made him a regular munsifi it would tend to
increase litigation enormously.
16184. If he were given criminal powers and relieved
the Sub-Divisional Officer to that extent what would you
say ?—Speaking broadly, he would be a sort of Sub-
Divisional Officer, and the more officers you have the
better the administration, but I suppose the expense
would be prohibitive. I would like to have a Sub-
Divisional Officer for every thana, but it is a question
of money.
16185. Except on the ground of expense it is an
arrangement which might improve the administration ?
—The more Government officers you have, the more
efficient the administration would be.
16186. With regard to localising Services to par-
ticular divisions, would you localise all the men in the
Provincial Service, Munsiffs, Deputy Collectors and so
on ?—Certainly.
16187. In a district or in a division ?—As far as
possible I would say that a man should stay in his dis-
trict, and I would not, except under very exceptional
circumstances, take him away from a division in which
he knew the language and the manners and customs.
In the Santhal Parganas I happened, by some chance,
to have a Deputy Collector who had been at head-
quarters for 20 years, which was most useful, for there
is hardly ever an officer who can tell one what has
happened three years ago.
16188. (Mr. Hichens.) Two objections have been
urged against keeping a person too long in one district,
one of them being that he is likely to get stale ; what have
you to say as to that ?—I thing the evil of a man being
in a district for a short time, knowing he is only going
to be there for a short time, and thereby prevented
from taking an interest in his work, is much greater than
any evil which might result from a man getting tired
of thq work. Speaking generally, the more you know
about a district, the more interested you are in it.
16189. Perhaps also you would say that even if a
man got stale he would get over it ?—I think a man
would be prevented from getting stale by taking fre-
quent short leave, which I am much in favour of.
16190. The other objection is that a man’s experience
would be, comparatively speaking, limited if he were
kept in one district, what do you say as to that ?—He
certainly would have a little experience of the other
districts in his division. During the course of his
service it would be found impossible to keep him in
one district, but in the division he ought to have ample
experience, and I think it better that he should know
one class of work thoroughly than that he should get
the smattering which he gets by being shifted from
one end of the province to the other.
16191. Would you say that the mere fact of suddenly
transferring a man from one end of a province to the
other gives him a wide experience which is of value ?—
I do not think it is very valuable.
16192. The fact being that the matters which come
under his notice and control are very varied and wide,
and that in itself gives him a wide experience ?—I think
any district in Bengal provides quite enough for one
man to think about.
16193. With regard to your statement that you think
one appeal sufficient, what is your opinion as to what
has been told us, namely, that it is part of the tradition
of the country that a man should be able to appeal to
the supreme authority, and that it would be impossible
to eradicate it ?—I think in the imagination of the
people that the supreme Head of the Government may
be taken to be, first, the District Officer, and, secondly,
the King on his throne in England ; they do not think
that a.Lieutenant-Governor is any nearer approach to
the supreme authority than a Commissioner or the
Viceroy, and if they once have the power of appealing
to all of them they go up the whole scale.
16194. But is the tradition of the existence.of a
right of appeal to the supreme Head one to which it
would be desirable to run contrary ?—No, I do not
think so. I think we have very largely taught the
people to appeal from department to department, and
the traditional feeling would only lead them to apply
to the Emperor in England. You do get people send-
ing home letters to the King.
16195. Are you in favour of creating substantially
smaller provinces ?—I should like to see it come.
16196. Would your idea be to have a considerable
number of, say, Chief Commissionerships?—Or in-
dependent provinces ; it would not matter what you
called them.
16197. You base your idea rather on the fact that
there is a large and diverse population than on the size
of the areas involved ?—Yes ; if you get a homogeneous
population, it does not much matter what the area is.
16198. Why do you lay such stress on the homo-
geneity of population ?—Because there is no harm in
passing an order that will be appropriate to a large
population, and you may get such an order where the
population is homogeneous, but where you have a
heterogeneous population, it is seldom that you can
pass such an order.
16199. If you take Switzerland, South Africa, and
many other countries, you find the populations are not
homogeneous, but at the same time they have one
Government which to all appearance works satis-
factorily,—why cannot you do that here ?—I do not
think you will find many pacts of the world where
there is a population of 60,000,000 governed by one
Government; if you take Australia with its few
millions, it has a dozen or more independent Chambers.