DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0142
136
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE:
many years past ?—I may be wrong, but I understood
that the authority of the Government of India was
necessary for making over the 25 per cent., which has
been allocated for expenditure by district authorities.
17760. Would you be in favour of making the whole
of the Public Works Cess over to the District Boards ?
—The Public Works Cess was imposed for Public
Works, and I assume that means must be taken to
provide for those Public Works which can only be
managed by the Local Government.
17761. In other provinces the District Board gener-
ally gets a cess of one anna in the rupee on the rental
of the land ; here in Bengal it only gets half an anna,
the provincial Government taking the other half.
Would you be in favour of a system of giving the
District Board the whole anna ?—If the provincial
charges for Public Works could be met out of other
revenue.
17762. Would you give the Commissioner power to
appoint Sub-Deputy Collectors?—It would be very
desirable in some ways, but the patronage of the Local
Government has also to be considered.
17763. You think the Commissioner might be likely
to abuse his patronage ?—I will not put it in that way,
but I will put it that there is patronage which ought to
be exercised by the Local Government, and there might
be cases which would not easily come under the cogni-
zance of Divisional Officers. I will mention a case I
have in view. For instance, the sons of old officers in
the Subordinate Service, the Provincial Service and
other Subordinate Services ; these men are shifted
about from one division or district to another and lose
local influence ; they have perhaps nobody at home ;
although they have rendered very good service, they
have no special claim on any one division, but they
have a very strong claim on Government.
17764. You think Government should keep some
appointments in its own hands at any rate ?—Yes.
17765. Another witness told us that he was in favour
of giving the Commissioner the power of posting Deputy
Collectors and Civilians below the rank of Collector in
his division ; are you in favour of that ?—Yes.
17766. And that the Commissioner should similarly
have power to invest with magisterial powers and
other special powers given under the Code ?—-Yes.
17767. And that he might have limited powers
under the Land Acquisition Act? At present you
cannot take up a small piece of land without going to
the Local Government; might not the Commissioner
have power there ?—Certainly.
17768. And with regard to the creation of small
permanent appointments, would you go so far as that ?
—That might permanently affect the budget. Per-
haps it might be done under very restricted financial
limits.
17769. As regards the district system, you are
strongly in favour of a special officer for the headquarters
sub-division ? Would you go further and employ
some of these Deputy Collectors who are now con-
centrated at district headquarters in territorial charges,
instead of having Special Deputy Collectors for income-
tax, stamps, and so forth ?—That is to say making
them Sub-divisional or Territorial Officers : I am afraid
their functions are different ; I should not be in favour
of that with regard to certain departments, particu-
larly with regard to excise ; excise I think requires a
specialist.
17770. As regards excise, is it not intended to
replace the Excise Deputy Collector by a special Excise
Officer ?—The proposal has been made ; I do not know
how it stands at present; at all events, that is the
withdrawal of one officer for that purpose.
17771. At any rate you admit that excise is so much
a special department that it ought to have a special
assistant of one sort, whether a Deputy Collector or
not ?—Just so ; I should think, too, that land acquisition
is on that footing.
17772. Might not the local officer take up local
land?—It is a very technical matter in towns; in
petty areas they do it sometimes.
17773. You are against unnecessary transfers. While
it may be desirable that a man should spend a good
time in his own district, is it not possible that he might
spend too much time in his district ?—No doubt ;
occasions arise when it is desirable for local reason to
transfer an officer.
17774. Is it not possible that an officer may spend so
long a time in a district as to get his personal likes and
dislikes, and that clerks and others can find out his
special weaknesses ?—I have known such cases.
17775. Has not the chaukidari system been recently
improved, the police having been dissociated with it ?
—As far as possible.
17776. Has that worked satisfactorily ?—As far as
one can tell ; it is still experimental.
177,77. In Orissa you have true villages ?—You mean
concentrated villages instead of villages scattered all
over the country : that is so ; the villages are fairly
concentrated.
17778. Your chaukidari union is rather an artificial
grodp ?—It is.
17779. In Orissa might one work on a natural
village ?—I am inclined to think that in the great
majority of cases in Orissa the villages would be too
small, and would not provide sufficient qualified men
for a panchayat, so that it is necessary to group several
villages in order to get men of decent standing and
weight; it depends on the actual size of the village ;
but the Orissa villages are generally too small.
17780. Are some of your small municipalities really
villages ?—There are some very small.
17781. You are against putting the municipalities
under the District Board as a rule ? Would that apply
to these semi-rural municipalities ?—I think it would ;
I do not think that the machinery of the District Board
is calculated to take that kind of detailed local in-
terest which is required in villages.
17782. We have had it put to us by several non-
official witnesses that it would be desirable to dis-
sociate the Collector from the Chairmanship of the
District Board ; would that be advisable ?—-My im-
pression is that the Collector really in many cases, if not
in all, does most of the executive work of the District
Board. In Some districts there are excellent Vice-
Chairmen who take the great burden off the Chairman
of doing all the routine and some of the important
work. I am not prepared to lay down a rule.
17783. Are you generally prepared to say that it
would be an advantage or otherwise to keep the Col-
lector outside altogether and say, “You are not to
attend the meetings ; you are to have nothing to do
with the District Boards except possibly as an in-
strument of outside control ” ?—I think there would
be no advantage in definitely laying down that the
Collector ought not to be associated with the District
Board. It is quite possible that experiments might be
made and Boards might be found in which a non-
official Chairman might succeed in running the Board
and doing it as well as, or better than, a Collector does
it; but I do not think it can be said that that is the
general rule.
17784. (Sir Steyning Edgerley.") As a matter of
general policy, you would keep the Collector in touch
with the District Board?—As a matter of general
policy.
17785. As regards your budget, how early in the
year do you know what money you will have to spend ;
do you know by the end of May ?—It varies with
different allotments. I think in most cases we do.
17786. We may take it that you know it about the
1st June ?—Yes ; we do not always get actual orders for
allotment from the Board ; we know that the Board
has so much for disposal, but we have again to wait
for the Board’s allotments ; some of them are later
than May.
17787. Is it not a matter of practical administrative
importance to have that information as early in the
year as possible ? If, therefore, the Local Government
could get through its budget in February, it would be
a matter of considerable importance in divisional ad-
ministration ?—Certainly, of very great importance.
17788. You are in favour of a general Delegation
Act ?—Yes, with the view that the Local Government
should be able to make suitable modifications to suit
local circumstances.
17789. You suggest that officers should have a dis-
cretionary grant given them from which they could
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE:
many years past ?—I may be wrong, but I understood
that the authority of the Government of India was
necessary for making over the 25 per cent., which has
been allocated for expenditure by district authorities.
17760. Would you be in favour of making the whole
of the Public Works Cess over to the District Boards ?
—The Public Works Cess was imposed for Public
Works, and I assume that means must be taken to
provide for those Public Works which can only be
managed by the Local Government.
17761. In other provinces the District Board gener-
ally gets a cess of one anna in the rupee on the rental
of the land ; here in Bengal it only gets half an anna,
the provincial Government taking the other half.
Would you be in favour of a system of giving the
District Board the whole anna ?—If the provincial
charges for Public Works could be met out of other
revenue.
17762. Would you give the Commissioner power to
appoint Sub-Deputy Collectors?—It would be very
desirable in some ways, but the patronage of the Local
Government has also to be considered.
17763. You think the Commissioner might be likely
to abuse his patronage ?—I will not put it in that way,
but I will put it that there is patronage which ought to
be exercised by the Local Government, and there might
be cases which would not easily come under the cogni-
zance of Divisional Officers. I will mention a case I
have in view. For instance, the sons of old officers in
the Subordinate Service, the Provincial Service and
other Subordinate Services ; these men are shifted
about from one division or district to another and lose
local influence ; they have perhaps nobody at home ;
although they have rendered very good service, they
have no special claim on any one division, but they
have a very strong claim on Government.
17764. You think Government should keep some
appointments in its own hands at any rate ?—Yes.
17765. Another witness told us that he was in favour
of giving the Commissioner the power of posting Deputy
Collectors and Civilians below the rank of Collector in
his division ; are you in favour of that ?—Yes.
17766. And that the Commissioner should similarly
have power to invest with magisterial powers and
other special powers given under the Code ?—-Yes.
17767. And that he might have limited powers
under the Land Acquisition Act? At present you
cannot take up a small piece of land without going to
the Local Government; might not the Commissioner
have power there ?—Certainly.
17768. And with regard to the creation of small
permanent appointments, would you go so far as that ?
—That might permanently affect the budget. Per-
haps it might be done under very restricted financial
limits.
17769. As regards the district system, you are
strongly in favour of a special officer for the headquarters
sub-division ? Would you go further and employ
some of these Deputy Collectors who are now con-
centrated at district headquarters in territorial charges,
instead of having Special Deputy Collectors for income-
tax, stamps, and so forth ?—That is to say making
them Sub-divisional or Territorial Officers : I am afraid
their functions are different ; I should not be in favour
of that with regard to certain departments, particu-
larly with regard to excise ; excise I think requires a
specialist.
17770. As regards excise, is it not intended to
replace the Excise Deputy Collector by a special Excise
Officer ?—The proposal has been made ; I do not know
how it stands at present; at all events, that is the
withdrawal of one officer for that purpose.
17771. At any rate you admit that excise is so much
a special department that it ought to have a special
assistant of one sort, whether a Deputy Collector or
not ?—Just so ; I should think, too, that land acquisition
is on that footing.
17772. Might not the local officer take up local
land?—It is a very technical matter in towns; in
petty areas they do it sometimes.
17773. You are against unnecessary transfers. While
it may be desirable that a man should spend a good
time in his own district, is it not possible that he might
spend too much time in his district ?—No doubt ;
occasions arise when it is desirable for local reason to
transfer an officer.
17774. Is it not possible that an officer may spend so
long a time in a district as to get his personal likes and
dislikes, and that clerks and others can find out his
special weaknesses ?—I have known such cases.
17775. Has not the chaukidari system been recently
improved, the police having been dissociated with it ?
—As far as possible.
17776. Has that worked satisfactorily ?—As far as
one can tell ; it is still experimental.
177,77. In Orissa you have true villages ?—You mean
concentrated villages instead of villages scattered all
over the country : that is so ; the villages are fairly
concentrated.
17778. Your chaukidari union is rather an artificial
grodp ?—It is.
17779. In Orissa might one work on a natural
village ?—I am inclined to think that in the great
majority of cases in Orissa the villages would be too
small, and would not provide sufficient qualified men
for a panchayat, so that it is necessary to group several
villages in order to get men of decent standing and
weight; it depends on the actual size of the village ;
but the Orissa villages are generally too small.
17780. Are some of your small municipalities really
villages ?—There are some very small.
17781. You are against putting the municipalities
under the District Board as a rule ? Would that apply
to these semi-rural municipalities ?—I think it would ;
I do not think that the machinery of the District Board
is calculated to take that kind of detailed local in-
terest which is required in villages.
17782. We have had it put to us by several non-
official witnesses that it would be desirable to dis-
sociate the Collector from the Chairmanship of the
District Board ; would that be advisable ?—-My im-
pression is that the Collector really in many cases, if not
in all, does most of the executive work of the District
Board. In Some districts there are excellent Vice-
Chairmen who take the great burden off the Chairman
of doing all the routine and some of the important
work. I am not prepared to lay down a rule.
17783. Are you generally prepared to say that it
would be an advantage or otherwise to keep the Col-
lector outside altogether and say, “You are not to
attend the meetings ; you are to have nothing to do
with the District Boards except possibly as an in-
strument of outside control ” ?—I think there would
be no advantage in definitely laying down that the
Collector ought not to be associated with the District
Board. It is quite possible that experiments might be
made and Boards might be found in which a non-
official Chairman might succeed in running the Board
and doing it as well as, or better than, a Collector does
it; but I do not think it can be said that that is the
general rule.
17784. (Sir Steyning Edgerley.") As a matter of
general policy, you would keep the Collector in touch
with the District Board?—As a matter of general
policy.
17785. As regards your budget, how early in the
year do you know what money you will have to spend ;
do you know by the end of May ?—It varies with
different allotments. I think in most cases we do.
17786. We may take it that you know it about the
1st June ?—Yes ; we do not always get actual orders for
allotment from the Board ; we know that the Board
has so much for disposal, but we have again to wait
for the Board’s allotments ; some of them are later
than May.
17787. Is it not a matter of practical administrative
importance to have that information as early in the
year as possible ? If, therefore, the Local Government
could get through its budget in February, it would be
a matter of considerable importance in divisional ad-
ministration ?—Certainly, of very great importance.
17788. You are in favour of a general Delegation
Act ?—Yes, with the view that the Local Government
should be able to make suitable modifications to suit
local circumstances.
17789. You suggest that officers should have a dis-
cretionary grant given them from which they could