DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0151
ROYAL COMMISSION UPON DECENTRALIZATION.
145
are at present discharged by the Government. For
example, they might safely be made responsible for
primary and technical education throughout the city,
a sufficient grant of improving items of revenue being
made to the municipal funds by the Government, to
enable them to meet the expenditure. Theatres also
should be licensed by the Corporation. The impor-
tant air-spaces and recreation grounds are controlled
by Government, and so are the public library, museum,
etc. A beginning might be made with primary and
technical education, and the licensing of theatres and
places of amusement, and the desirability of bringing
the Corporation into closer touch with the civic life
of the city should be borne in mind.
17921. What was the nature of your relations with
the Director of Agriculture ?—He was the agricultural
expert to whom I used to refer any points of difficulty.
In Bengal, we had not then separated the departments
as they have since been separated—Agriculture from
Land Records. At that time there was only one
department and our work was in a very embryo stage ;
we wanted help and guidance, and he came down twice
and toured about with me ; I put a good many
questions to him and obtained his advice as far as
possible with regard to the experiments we were
making.
17922. Did you find as one result of his coming to
your province that he wanted to interfere with your
administrative machinery ?—No, not in the slightest
degree ; I do not think he went into any question with
regard to our administrative machinery ; he was only
interested as an agricultural expert pure and simple.
17923. Did you correspond with him officially
through your Government ?—No, I corresponded with
him direct, officially and demi-officially.
17924. Did he advise the Local Government as apart
from you ?—I do not think he did so.
17925. Did all his advice come through you, and did
all your questions go direct to him ?—Yes, that was
the practice. If the Government wished to get any
information from him, they would have gone through
me, or instructed me to obtain his opinion.
17926. Do you look upon an Inspector-General as
an exceedingly useful institution ?—Yes. I can only
speak of the one with whom I came into contact—the
Director of Agriculture.
17927. Were the satisfactory relations between you
due to the personality of that Inspector-General, or are
the advantages inherent in the traditions of his office ?
—His office was entirely a new one and I do not think
it had any traditions ; Mr. Mollison had been Assistant
Director of Agriculture in Bombay, and I rather think
he was the first appointment by the Government of
India to his office.
17928. You say that Executive Officers are very
much over-worked ? What is your remedy ?—More
men, I think.
17929. That is really the bed-rock of the present
trouble—want of sufficient staff ?—I think so ; the
want of a sufficient high supervising staff.
17930. Not the want of a subordinate staff?—To
some extent, yes, but the want is far more urgent with
regard to supervising men.
17931. Would the strain which is now imposed on
officers be relieved to a greater extent by an increase in
the staff than by the subdivision of districts ?—It is
difficult to say without knowing the circumstances of
each district, but there are some districts no doubt
which require subdivision, although what the districts
generally require is more Joint-Magistrates and Assis-
tant Magistrates who could relieve the Collectors of a
great deal of work which now overburdens them.
17932. One witness stated that the real remedy was
to break divisions up into small districts and put the
entire work of a district on to one man ; are you not
in agreement with that view ?—I do not think that a
district of about 3,000 square miles is too much for an
officer to supervise, providing he has a sufficient inter-
mediary staff under him, but if the whole work is
thrown on him, as it is now, without sufficient assis-
tance, then he is thoroughly overworked.
17933. Is some of the trouble occasioned by the
fact that there are incapable officers in charge of
districts?—I have not had, as a matter of fact, any
direct knowledge of the working of districts within the
last four or five years, but I should say, before that
time, that far too junior officers were put in charge of
districts.
17934. Perhaps the want of either experience or
capacity has caused the Government to issue general
rules, which have operated adversely to the service ?—
It might be that there is a want of capacity on the
part of some District Officers, but the real trouble was
due to want of experience. When an officer of two
or three years’ service is put in charge of a district
where the work is new to him, he is very likely to
make a large number of mistakes, which he would not
make if he did not take charge of a district until he
had 8 or 9 years’ service.
17935. Does the mode of selection point to incapa-
city in particular officers, or does it rather point to
the necessity of very much higher capacity for parti-
cular officers ? — No doubt there are inefficient
individuals, but I should not have said that the
percentage of them was very large.
17936. How low down in the scale should the period
of selection begin ?—Certainly for districts. I would
appoint Collectors by selection, but because a man had
been once passed over I would not pass him over
indefinitely ; I would give him a period of probation
as Joint-Magistrate, and if he showed capacity I would
promote him ; I do not think a man ought to be finally
passed over.
17937. Supposing an officer had been passed over
two or three times who was clearly incompetent to
take charge of a district, would you retain him in the
service or retire him?—I should retire him.
Sir C. G. S.
Allen.
4 Jan., 1908,
17938. Are you appointed as Chairman of the
Calcutta Corporation by Government ?—Yes.
17939. Are the majority of the Commissioners
appointed by Government ?—No ; we have 50 Com-
missioners, of whom 25 are elected, 15 are appointed
by Government, and the remaining 10 are appointed
by local bodies.
17940. Is the executive power vested in you as
Chairman ?—Yes, entirely.
17941. Would that account for some of the want of
interest which the Commissioners exhibit ?—That is
very likely so.
17942. Speaking as a Chairman of the Corporation,
would it be advantageous to the interests of the Cor-
poration if some of your duties were delegated to the
Commissioners as a body ?—In Calcutta at present it
is advisable that the executive authority should be
concentrated in one man, because in that way the
machine works better.
17943. Have the Commissioners as a body power to
direct the policy of the Corporation ?—I should say so
entirely, in large matters. The budget is entirely in
their own hands, and in that way they can control the
policy.
17944. Is it your view that executive power should
remain with you, but that questions of policy may be,
and are, decided by the Corporation as a body ?—Yes,
but it is a little misleading to say that questions of
policy only are decided by the Corporation. There
are a very large number of questions which cannot be
described as questions of policy which are settled by
the Corporation ; in fact, they make some appoint-
ments ; they have a number of functions in connection
with water-supply and other matters which, although
not executive, still give them a very large say in the
administration of the Corporation. They do not
merely decide abstract questions of policy, but they
play a very large part in the administration.
17945. Is much of your work done by committees ?
—Very largely so indeed.
17946. Are you Chairman of all the committees ?—
Not all of them ; there are a few committees appointed
by the Corporation of which I am not Chairman, but
under the law, if I am a member of a committee, I
must be the Chairman of it.
17947. On the other hand, are there certain duties
which are at present performed by the Government
which might be transferred to the Commissioners as a
whole ?—Yes, I think that might gradually be done.
17948. Would that not mean that at the present
stage it would be practically a transfer not to the Com-
missioners but to yourself ?—No ; in a matter like
33263
T
145
are at present discharged by the Government. For
example, they might safely be made responsible for
primary and technical education throughout the city,
a sufficient grant of improving items of revenue being
made to the municipal funds by the Government, to
enable them to meet the expenditure. Theatres also
should be licensed by the Corporation. The impor-
tant air-spaces and recreation grounds are controlled
by Government, and so are the public library, museum,
etc. A beginning might be made with primary and
technical education, and the licensing of theatres and
places of amusement, and the desirability of bringing
the Corporation into closer touch with the civic life
of the city should be borne in mind.
17921. What was the nature of your relations with
the Director of Agriculture ?—He was the agricultural
expert to whom I used to refer any points of difficulty.
In Bengal, we had not then separated the departments
as they have since been separated—Agriculture from
Land Records. At that time there was only one
department and our work was in a very embryo stage ;
we wanted help and guidance, and he came down twice
and toured about with me ; I put a good many
questions to him and obtained his advice as far as
possible with regard to the experiments we were
making.
17922. Did you find as one result of his coming to
your province that he wanted to interfere with your
administrative machinery ?—No, not in the slightest
degree ; I do not think he went into any question with
regard to our administrative machinery ; he was only
interested as an agricultural expert pure and simple.
17923. Did you correspond with him officially
through your Government ?—No, I corresponded with
him direct, officially and demi-officially.
17924. Did he advise the Local Government as apart
from you ?—I do not think he did so.
17925. Did all his advice come through you, and did
all your questions go direct to him ?—Yes, that was
the practice. If the Government wished to get any
information from him, they would have gone through
me, or instructed me to obtain his opinion.
17926. Do you look upon an Inspector-General as
an exceedingly useful institution ?—Yes. I can only
speak of the one with whom I came into contact—the
Director of Agriculture.
17927. Were the satisfactory relations between you
due to the personality of that Inspector-General, or are
the advantages inherent in the traditions of his office ?
—His office was entirely a new one and I do not think
it had any traditions ; Mr. Mollison had been Assistant
Director of Agriculture in Bombay, and I rather think
he was the first appointment by the Government of
India to his office.
17928. You say that Executive Officers are very
much over-worked ? What is your remedy ?—More
men, I think.
17929. That is really the bed-rock of the present
trouble—want of sufficient staff ?—I think so ; the
want of a sufficient high supervising staff.
17930. Not the want of a subordinate staff?—To
some extent, yes, but the want is far more urgent with
regard to supervising men.
17931. Would the strain which is now imposed on
officers be relieved to a greater extent by an increase in
the staff than by the subdivision of districts ?—It is
difficult to say without knowing the circumstances of
each district, but there are some districts no doubt
which require subdivision, although what the districts
generally require is more Joint-Magistrates and Assis-
tant Magistrates who could relieve the Collectors of a
great deal of work which now overburdens them.
17932. One witness stated that the real remedy was
to break divisions up into small districts and put the
entire work of a district on to one man ; are you not
in agreement with that view ?—I do not think that a
district of about 3,000 square miles is too much for an
officer to supervise, providing he has a sufficient inter-
mediary staff under him, but if the whole work is
thrown on him, as it is now, without sufficient assis-
tance, then he is thoroughly overworked.
17933. Is some of the trouble occasioned by the
fact that there are incapable officers in charge of
districts?—I have not had, as a matter of fact, any
direct knowledge of the working of districts within the
last four or five years, but I should say, before that
time, that far too junior officers were put in charge of
districts.
17934. Perhaps the want of either experience or
capacity has caused the Government to issue general
rules, which have operated adversely to the service ?—
It might be that there is a want of capacity on the
part of some District Officers, but the real trouble was
due to want of experience. When an officer of two
or three years’ service is put in charge of a district
where the work is new to him, he is very likely to
make a large number of mistakes, which he would not
make if he did not take charge of a district until he
had 8 or 9 years’ service.
17935. Does the mode of selection point to incapa-
city in particular officers, or does it rather point to
the necessity of very much higher capacity for parti-
cular officers ? — No doubt there are inefficient
individuals, but I should not have said that the
percentage of them was very large.
17936. How low down in the scale should the period
of selection begin ?—Certainly for districts. I would
appoint Collectors by selection, but because a man had
been once passed over I would not pass him over
indefinitely ; I would give him a period of probation
as Joint-Magistrate, and if he showed capacity I would
promote him ; I do not think a man ought to be finally
passed over.
17937. Supposing an officer had been passed over
two or three times who was clearly incompetent to
take charge of a district, would you retain him in the
service or retire him?—I should retire him.
Sir C. G. S.
Allen.
4 Jan., 1908,
17938. Are you appointed as Chairman of the
Calcutta Corporation by Government ?—Yes.
17939. Are the majority of the Commissioners
appointed by Government ?—No ; we have 50 Com-
missioners, of whom 25 are elected, 15 are appointed
by Government, and the remaining 10 are appointed
by local bodies.
17940. Is the executive power vested in you as
Chairman ?—Yes, entirely.
17941. Would that account for some of the want of
interest which the Commissioners exhibit ?—That is
very likely so.
17942. Speaking as a Chairman of the Corporation,
would it be advantageous to the interests of the Cor-
poration if some of your duties were delegated to the
Commissioners as a body ?—In Calcutta at present it
is advisable that the executive authority should be
concentrated in one man, because in that way the
machine works better.
17943. Have the Commissioners as a body power to
direct the policy of the Corporation ?—I should say so
entirely, in large matters. The budget is entirely in
their own hands, and in that way they can control the
policy.
17944. Is it your view that executive power should
remain with you, but that questions of policy may be,
and are, decided by the Corporation as a body ?—Yes,
but it is a little misleading to say that questions of
policy only are decided by the Corporation. There
are a very large number of questions which cannot be
described as questions of policy which are settled by
the Corporation ; in fact, they make some appoint-
ments ; they have a number of functions in connection
with water-supply and other matters which, although
not executive, still give them a very large say in the
administration of the Corporation. They do not
merely decide abstract questions of policy, but they
play a very large part in the administration.
17945. Is much of your work done by committees ?
—Very largely so indeed.
17946. Are you Chairman of all the committees ?—
Not all of them ; there are a few committees appointed
by the Corporation of which I am not Chairman, but
under the law, if I am a member of a committee, I
must be the Chairman of it.
17947. On the other hand, are there certain duties
which are at present performed by the Government
which might be transferred to the Commissioners as a
whole ?—Yes, I think that might gradually be done.
17948. Would that not mean that at the present
stage it would be practically a transfer not to the Com-
missioners but to yourself ?—No ; in a matter like
33263
T