DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0158
152
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE:
Babu District Boards should be entirely changed and should
Bhupendra- be similar at least to the constitution of the Local
nath Basu. Boards, the Chairman beimg elected. If the District
_ T ' Boards are freed from the incubus of excessive
Jan-’ 1 officialization, they would be instruments of great
good to the people and much further powers as regards
roads, sanitation and education may be given to them
than they possess at present.
The municipal Government of Calcutta is an absolute
anomaly : it consists of 3 co-ordinate authorities, the
Chairman, the General Committee and the Corpora-
tion, each of whom is independent of the others : a
' recent case is an apt illustration of the state of things.
The Corporation wanted to enquire into the allegations
of corruption against some of their servants ; objection
has been taken to their doing so by the Chairman, who,
under’ the Act, has independent powers, and who in
exercise of these powers has appointed these municipal
servants. The result is that the Corporation under
the Act has no power over the Chairman and
practically no control over the servants appointed by
the Chairman or the General Committee, who form,
with the exception of a few superior officers, the bulk
of the Corporation employes. The Corporation has no
power of control over the proceedings of the General
Committee or the Chairman except in specified
instances and as a body has ceased to possess a truly
representative character. To the Corporation, as at
present constituted, I would not recommend further
delegation of powers, as the representation of the
ratepayers is unduly weak.
I am in favour of the creation of Advisory or
Administrative Councils : if these Councils are to be
of any use they ought to include a strong elected
element, otherwise as the position would confer some
prestige upon the holder, it would inevitably lead to
subserviency and sycophancy, if it remained entirely
in the gift of the officials concerned. Two-thirds or,
if this proportion is considered too large in the
beginning, then at least half, of the members of
these Councils should be elected, and the remainder
nominated. The election may be entrusted to the
municipalities and the elected members of the District
Boards. As regards Advisory Councils for divisions
the same proportion as regards election and nomina-
tion should be followed, the election in this case being
made by the elected membeis of the District Councils.
The Councils should be consulted in all matters
except judicial affairs affecting the district or the
division, and regular meetings ought to be held, so
that it may not be possible for an official to let the
Councils go to sleep.
In the Education Department, funds for the current
needs of colleges should be allocated in the beginning
of the year, and the College Council, consisting of the
Principal, some members of the teaching staff and
one outsider to be nominated by Government, should
be entrusted with spending it : books, instruments,
and other accessories for colleges should be allowed to
be indented for by the head professor of the depart-
ment concerned with the sanction of the College
Council. As regards Government schools, when they
are under the control of a college Principal, the same
system may be followed : in case of other Government
schools the Collector of the district in consultation
with the head-master should be allowed to buy school
requisites.
The distinction now obtaining between the Indian
Service and the provincial Service in the Education
Department should not be allowed to continue. If it
should be thought necessary to continue the system,
though I think it is both unsafe and injudicious, let
there be two classes A and B, class B ending with
Rs. 1,000 and class A beginning with Rs. 400 and
ending as the Indian Service now’ does ; but subject to
the number in the higher class being limited by the
Government of India for each province, the Local
Government should be allowed to recruit class A both
in England, as well as from class B.
18076. Might some further opportunity be given to
provincial Governments to lend money for provin-
cial works without the previous sanction of the
Supreme Government ?—Yes, provided that it is in-
cluded in the budget and sanctioned by the provincial
Council.
18077. You do not mean it then to extend to works
outside the budget as sent up by the provincial
Government to the Government of India ?—No.
18078. In the case of customs which have been
imperialised, you say that the administration being by
the Local Government it yet has no voice in the
appointments to that service ?—Yes, that is how I
understand the case to be.
18079. Would you wish such power to be given to
the Local Government?—Yes.
18080. Within the general limits of appointment
otherwise laid down ?—Yes.
18081. Have you any actual experience of the work
of local bodies such as District Boards and muni-
cipalities ?—Yes, I have been a member of the Calcutta
Municipality for a great number of years, but not in
the mufassal.
18082. You say that Local Governments might have
more borrowing powers for the construction of feeder
railways and canals ? Could they get a local market
for their stock ?—Yes, municipalities and Port Trusts
do obtain fairly good local markets for their stock, and
if a slightly more advanced rate of interest were offered
by the Local Government, I have no doubt loans
would find a ready local market.
18083. Would you make the loans of these Local
Governments subject to the sanction of the Central
Government ?—Yes.
18084. Is the offer of a slightly higher rate of
interest an essential condition of success for borrowing
in a local market ?—It has been recognised as such by
the Calcutta Municipality, whose credit has always
stood very high, and by the Calcutta Port Trust,,
whose credit has also stood very high ; these securities
are gladly sought after for investment in the case of
Trusts and for similar purposes. The rate is slightly
higher than the rate offered by the Supreme Govern-
ment, and is at present 4 per cent, in place of 3|.
18085. Would the revenues of the provincial Govern-
ment as based upon their settlement with the
Government of India be regarded as a good security by
the investors ?—I think so. So far as the Government
of Bengal and rich people in Bengal are concerned
they would regard the security as quite good enough.
18086. Would not the failure which has attended
District Boards in this direction necessarily attend a
provincial Government requiring loans for the same
purpose ?—Not at all. The provincial Government
would not meet with the same difficulties.
18087. You say that there is no direct touch between
the Government and the people, and that access to the
Supreme Government is difficult or practically impos-
sible ; what remedy would you suggest for that state
of things ?—The Supreme Government just now is
more or less an abstraction to the people, partly
because of the pomp and circumstance with which it
surrounds itself, and partly because it spends the
greater part of the year away in the hills.
18088. Are you thinking of administrative difficulties,
or of some larger questions which are somewhat out-
side our province ?—I am thinking of administrative
difficulties. So far as we are aware, the Supreme'
Government has no means at its disposal of getting
information first hand from the people ; all its
information comes through the Local Government,
and as we take it, it is coloured by the tone of the
Local Governments ; the people have felt on many
occasions that their representations have not received
the same amount of attention they probably otherwise
would if the Supreme Government was in closer
personal touch with them. If it were possible for the
people to approach the Head of the Government,
or the Members in charge of the different departments,
directly, greater confidence would be inspired in the
people with regard to the work and methods of the
Supreme Government.
18089. Have you been brought much into touch
with educational matters?—Yes; I represented the
University of Calcutta for four years on the local
Council, and I was a Fellow of the Calcutta University
for many years.
18090. Did you find that the influence of the
Director-General in educational matters was either not.
useful or non-existent?—We did not see much
evidence of that influence being exercised upon the
Educational Department in Bengal.
18091. Supposing he had attempted to intervene
with regard to educational matters in the University,
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE:
Babu District Boards should be entirely changed and should
Bhupendra- be similar at least to the constitution of the Local
nath Basu. Boards, the Chairman beimg elected. If the District
_ T ' Boards are freed from the incubus of excessive
Jan-’ 1 officialization, they would be instruments of great
good to the people and much further powers as regards
roads, sanitation and education may be given to them
than they possess at present.
The municipal Government of Calcutta is an absolute
anomaly : it consists of 3 co-ordinate authorities, the
Chairman, the General Committee and the Corpora-
tion, each of whom is independent of the others : a
' recent case is an apt illustration of the state of things.
The Corporation wanted to enquire into the allegations
of corruption against some of their servants ; objection
has been taken to their doing so by the Chairman, who,
under’ the Act, has independent powers, and who in
exercise of these powers has appointed these municipal
servants. The result is that the Corporation under
the Act has no power over the Chairman and
practically no control over the servants appointed by
the Chairman or the General Committee, who form,
with the exception of a few superior officers, the bulk
of the Corporation employes. The Corporation has no
power of control over the proceedings of the General
Committee or the Chairman except in specified
instances and as a body has ceased to possess a truly
representative character. To the Corporation, as at
present constituted, I would not recommend further
delegation of powers, as the representation of the
ratepayers is unduly weak.
I am in favour of the creation of Advisory or
Administrative Councils : if these Councils are to be
of any use they ought to include a strong elected
element, otherwise as the position would confer some
prestige upon the holder, it would inevitably lead to
subserviency and sycophancy, if it remained entirely
in the gift of the officials concerned. Two-thirds or,
if this proportion is considered too large in the
beginning, then at least half, of the members of
these Councils should be elected, and the remainder
nominated. The election may be entrusted to the
municipalities and the elected members of the District
Boards. As regards Advisory Councils for divisions
the same proportion as regards election and nomina-
tion should be followed, the election in this case being
made by the elected membeis of the District Councils.
The Councils should be consulted in all matters
except judicial affairs affecting the district or the
division, and regular meetings ought to be held, so
that it may not be possible for an official to let the
Councils go to sleep.
In the Education Department, funds for the current
needs of colleges should be allocated in the beginning
of the year, and the College Council, consisting of the
Principal, some members of the teaching staff and
one outsider to be nominated by Government, should
be entrusted with spending it : books, instruments,
and other accessories for colleges should be allowed to
be indented for by the head professor of the depart-
ment concerned with the sanction of the College
Council. As regards Government schools, when they
are under the control of a college Principal, the same
system may be followed : in case of other Government
schools the Collector of the district in consultation
with the head-master should be allowed to buy school
requisites.
The distinction now obtaining between the Indian
Service and the provincial Service in the Education
Department should not be allowed to continue. If it
should be thought necessary to continue the system,
though I think it is both unsafe and injudicious, let
there be two classes A and B, class B ending with
Rs. 1,000 and class A beginning with Rs. 400 and
ending as the Indian Service now’ does ; but subject to
the number in the higher class being limited by the
Government of India for each province, the Local
Government should be allowed to recruit class A both
in England, as well as from class B.
18076. Might some further opportunity be given to
provincial Governments to lend money for provin-
cial works without the previous sanction of the
Supreme Government ?—Yes, provided that it is in-
cluded in the budget and sanctioned by the provincial
Council.
18077. You do not mean it then to extend to works
outside the budget as sent up by the provincial
Government to the Government of India ?—No.
18078. In the case of customs which have been
imperialised, you say that the administration being by
the Local Government it yet has no voice in the
appointments to that service ?—Yes, that is how I
understand the case to be.
18079. Would you wish such power to be given to
the Local Government?—Yes.
18080. Within the general limits of appointment
otherwise laid down ?—Yes.
18081. Have you any actual experience of the work
of local bodies such as District Boards and muni-
cipalities ?—Yes, I have been a member of the Calcutta
Municipality for a great number of years, but not in
the mufassal.
18082. You say that Local Governments might have
more borrowing powers for the construction of feeder
railways and canals ? Could they get a local market
for their stock ?—Yes, municipalities and Port Trusts
do obtain fairly good local markets for their stock, and
if a slightly more advanced rate of interest were offered
by the Local Government, I have no doubt loans
would find a ready local market.
18083. Would you make the loans of these Local
Governments subject to the sanction of the Central
Government ?—Yes.
18084. Is the offer of a slightly higher rate of
interest an essential condition of success for borrowing
in a local market ?—It has been recognised as such by
the Calcutta Municipality, whose credit has always
stood very high, and by the Calcutta Port Trust,,
whose credit has also stood very high ; these securities
are gladly sought after for investment in the case of
Trusts and for similar purposes. The rate is slightly
higher than the rate offered by the Supreme Govern-
ment, and is at present 4 per cent, in place of 3|.
18085. Would the revenues of the provincial Govern-
ment as based upon their settlement with the
Government of India be regarded as a good security by
the investors ?—I think so. So far as the Government
of Bengal and rich people in Bengal are concerned
they would regard the security as quite good enough.
18086. Would not the failure which has attended
District Boards in this direction necessarily attend a
provincial Government requiring loans for the same
purpose ?—Not at all. The provincial Government
would not meet with the same difficulties.
18087. You say that there is no direct touch between
the Government and the people, and that access to the
Supreme Government is difficult or practically impos-
sible ; what remedy would you suggest for that state
of things ?—The Supreme Government just now is
more or less an abstraction to the people, partly
because of the pomp and circumstance with which it
surrounds itself, and partly because it spends the
greater part of the year away in the hills.
18088. Are you thinking of administrative difficulties,
or of some larger questions which are somewhat out-
side our province ?—I am thinking of administrative
difficulties. So far as we are aware, the Supreme'
Government has no means at its disposal of getting
information first hand from the people ; all its
information comes through the Local Government,
and as we take it, it is coloured by the tone of the
Local Governments ; the people have felt on many
occasions that their representations have not received
the same amount of attention they probably otherwise
would if the Supreme Government was in closer
personal touch with them. If it were possible for the
people to approach the Head of the Government,
or the Members in charge of the different departments,
directly, greater confidence would be inspired in the
people with regard to the work and methods of the
Supreme Government.
18089. Have you been brought much into touch
with educational matters?—Yes; I represented the
University of Calcutta for four years on the local
Council, and I was a Fellow of the Calcutta University
for many years.
18090. Did you find that the influence of the
Director-General in educational matters was either not.
useful or non-existent?—We did not see much
evidence of that influence being exercised upon the
Educational Department in Bengal.
18091. Supposing he had attempted to intervene
with regard to educational matters in the University,