DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.802#0025
16 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE
The the artists already employed by you are employed ostensibly by the ministers there?—I do not know
■ gw' what distinction there is between Lusieri and any other artist.
Is he acting under the permission your Lordship obtained?—There has been war since.
Has it been renewed to your Lordship, or individually to themselves?—They have made the
application through the channel they thought proper; what it was I do not know; but it was probably
the same permission that Lord Aberdeen had, and many other travellers that have been there. >
Your Lordship does not know whether it was renewed to your Lordship or to Mr. Liston, ot
whether they are acting under a permission granted to him, or individual permissions granted to the
artists?—I do not know what the detail is; I cqnclude they are acting exactly as any other traveller
there is: there is no advantage from the ambassadorial title that I had then, that can apply to them
now, because there has been war since.
Have they power to excavate, model, and remove?—-They have removed a great deal from thence.
And you do not know in what shape those powers have been renewed since the war?—No,
I do not.
In the letter to Mr. Long, which you have stated, you speak as having obtained these permissions
after much trouble and patient solicitation; what was the nature of the objections on the part of the
Turkish government?—Their general jealousy and enmity to every Christian of every denomination,
and every interference on their part. I believe, that from the period of the reign of Louis the
Fourteenth, the French government have been endeavouring to obtain similar advantages, and
particularly the Sigean Marble.
They rested it upon that general objection? — Upon the general enmity to what they called
Christian Dogs.
That was not the manner in which they stated their objection?—No; but that is the fact; it
was always refused. '
Without reasons ?—Without reasons assigned; every body on the spot knew what those reasons
were; that they would not give any facility to any thing that was not Turkish.
All your Lordship's communications with the Porte were verbal?—There was nothing in writing
till an order was issued. f
The objection disappeared from the moment of the decided success of our arms in Egypt?—Yes;
the whole system of Turkish feeling met with a revolution; in the first place, from the invasion by the
French, and afterwards by our conquest.
Your Lordship has stated in your Petition, that you directed your attention in an especial manner
to the benefit of rescuing from danger the remains of Sculpture and Architecture; what steps did you
take for that purpose?—My whole plan was to measure and to draw every thing that remained and
could be traced of architecture, to model the peculiar features of architecture: I brought home a piece
of each description of column for instance, and capitals and decorations of every description; friezes
and moulds, and, in some instances, original specimens: and the architects not only went over the
measurements that had been before traced, but, by removing the foundations, were enabled to extend
them, and to open the way to further inquiries, which have heen attended since with considerable
■ success.
You state, that you have rescued the remains from danger?—From the period of Stuart's visit to
Athens till the time I went to Turkey, a very great destruction had taken place. There was an old
temple on the Ilissus had disappeared. There was, in the neighbourhood of Elis and Olympia, another
temple, which had disappeared. At Corinth, I think Stuart gives thirteen columns, and there were
only five when I got there: every traveller coming, added to the general defacement of the statuary in
his reach: there are now in London pieces broken off within our day. And the Turks have been
continually defacing the heads; and in some instances they have actually acknowledged to me, that
they have pounded down the statues to convert them into mortar, Jt was upon these suggestions., and
The the artists already employed by you are employed ostensibly by the ministers there?—I do not know
■ gw' what distinction there is between Lusieri and any other artist.
Is he acting under the permission your Lordship obtained?—There has been war since.
Has it been renewed to your Lordship, or individually to themselves?—They have made the
application through the channel they thought proper; what it was I do not know; but it was probably
the same permission that Lord Aberdeen had, and many other travellers that have been there. >
Your Lordship does not know whether it was renewed to your Lordship or to Mr. Liston, ot
whether they are acting under a permission granted to him, or individual permissions granted to the
artists?—I do not know what the detail is; I cqnclude they are acting exactly as any other traveller
there is: there is no advantage from the ambassadorial title that I had then, that can apply to them
now, because there has been war since.
Have they power to excavate, model, and remove?—-They have removed a great deal from thence.
And you do not know in what shape those powers have been renewed since the war?—No,
I do not.
In the letter to Mr. Long, which you have stated, you speak as having obtained these permissions
after much trouble and patient solicitation; what was the nature of the objections on the part of the
Turkish government?—Their general jealousy and enmity to every Christian of every denomination,
and every interference on their part. I believe, that from the period of the reign of Louis the
Fourteenth, the French government have been endeavouring to obtain similar advantages, and
particularly the Sigean Marble.
They rested it upon that general objection? — Upon the general enmity to what they called
Christian Dogs.
That was not the manner in which they stated their objection?—No; but that is the fact; it
was always refused. '
Without reasons ?—Without reasons assigned; every body on the spot knew what those reasons
were; that they would not give any facility to any thing that was not Turkish.
All your Lordship's communications with the Porte were verbal?—There was nothing in writing
till an order was issued. f
The objection disappeared from the moment of the decided success of our arms in Egypt?—Yes;
the whole system of Turkish feeling met with a revolution; in the first place, from the invasion by the
French, and afterwards by our conquest.
Your Lordship has stated in your Petition, that you directed your attention in an especial manner
to the benefit of rescuing from danger the remains of Sculpture and Architecture; what steps did you
take for that purpose?—My whole plan was to measure and to draw every thing that remained and
could be traced of architecture, to model the peculiar features of architecture: I brought home a piece
of each description of column for instance, and capitals and decorations of every description; friezes
and moulds, and, in some instances, original specimens: and the architects not only went over the
measurements that had been before traced, but, by removing the foundations, were enabled to extend
them, and to open the way to further inquiries, which have heen attended since with considerable
■ success.
You state, that you have rescued the remains from danger?—From the period of Stuart's visit to
Athens till the time I went to Turkey, a very great destruction had taken place. There was an old
temple on the Ilissus had disappeared. There was, in the neighbourhood of Elis and Olympia, another
temple, which had disappeared. At Corinth, I think Stuart gives thirteen columns, and there were
only five when I got there: every traveller coming, added to the general defacement of the statuary in
his reach: there are now in London pieces broken off within our day. And the Turks have been
continually defacing the heads; and in some instances they have actually acknowledged to me, that
they have pounded down the statues to convert them into mortar, Jt was upon these suggestions., and