DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0026
20
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :
Hee Hon.
Mr. E. A.
Gait.
27 Dec., 1907.
Magistrate, would that add considerably to the con-
venience of the people ?—Yes, but you would have
largely to increase their number.
14695. Could some reduction then be made in the
police force ?—No, I do not think you could do that.
Our thanas are very big as it is ; there are very few
thanas of less than 100 square miles.
14696. But you could relieve them from all this
outside work ?—You could, but still I do not think it
would be possible to reduce their number.
14697. Would you allow compulsory retirement for
Civilians who had fa led, on the same terms as retire-
ment under a medical certificate ?—Yes.
14698. That is to say you would put inefficiency on
the same footing as misfortune ?—I think it would be
an administrative gain to get rid of incompetent men
even on those terms ; and in order to avoid hardship
as much as possible, I would treat them liberally ; I
might have said, perhaps that unsuitable men should
be retired on the same terms as were allowed until
recently for those who have to go on medical certifi-ate.
The rules for the latter have recently been made more
liberal than they were formerly.
14699. Have you a strict probationary period for the
Provincial Service?—We have probationers, but there
are very few cases in which they are not confirmed.
14700. From the point of view of pensions, would
it not be wise to considerably lengthen the period of
probation so as to enable you to fully test a man ?—
It would be so in theory, but it might make it more
difficult to recruit the same class of men ; men who
are willing to come to us now, might not come if they
thought they were liable to be turned out.
14701. Does any recruit come into any Service with
the idea that he is going to be a failure ?—No.
14702. Then how will it affect you ?—Because a
man might see another cast adrift after a time, and he
would say to himself that it was not safe to run the
risk of a similar fate.
14703. (Chairman.) Has the Commissioner power
to post officers, not merely in the suitor di- ate ranks
of the Provincial Service, but in the Civil Service ?—
No, the only officer he can post is the Sub-Deputy
Collector ; he has no power to post Deputy Collectors,
but I think he should have. It has already been
decided to give him this power when the recent
increase in the cadre becomes effective.
14704. What is the training for an Accountant-
General ?—The Accountant-General is generally a
Civilian w ho has been dealing with general work for
several years ; then he is transferred to the Accounts
Department as rn Assistant Accountant-General, and
after serving as Assistant Accountant-General in
several provinces, he is promoted to Accountant-
General.
14705. Is he an officer of sufficient experience and
capacity, as a rule, to be entrusted with the rather
large powers which you propose to give him ?—Yes, I
think so, you might have an eccentric man no v and
again, but generally I would entrust him with all
those powers.
14706. Are you certain, as a class, that Accountants-
General could be trusted with the delicate and
extensive powers which you propose ?—I do not
consider that I have proposed to give him extensive
powers ; I have proposed to define the cases in which
he might insist on reference to India.
14707. Are there a great number of manuals in
existence ?—Yes.
14708. Has any attempt been made by the Govern-
ment of Bengal to codify them, or amend them and
bring them up to date?—That is being done
constantly.
( The witness withdrew.)
The Hi n.
Mr. H. C.
Streatfeild.
27 Dec., 1907.
The Hon. Mr. H. C. Streatfeild was called and examined.
14709. (Chairman.) You are Officiating Secretary to
the Government of Bengal in the General and Judicial
Department ?—Yes.
I do not consider that any great extension of
financial powers can safely be given to Local Govern-
ments. There are many points of detail on which the
control of the Imperial Government is vexatious and
leads to delays and unnecessary correspondence ; but
the main principles of that control are salutary. The
importance of continuity in our administration is
supreme ; frequent change in the main lines of policy
must necessarily cause uncertainty in the minds of the
officers of Government and confusion and dissatis-
faction in those of the general public. The Head of
the Local Government changes of necessity every
five years, frequently at shorter intervals ; and while
the impress of a personality on the administration
is often healthy, it is most undesirable that the
principles of the administration should be funda-
mentally altered at short intervals according to the
personal predilections of its Chief. The control of
the Government of India has the effect of preserving
a general continuity of policy, and I should therefore
regret to see it relaxed : and this control can best
be exercised by means of financial rules. I am not
therefore in favour of any general relaxation of the
existing financial rules. Though there are numerous
details in which those rules might be modified with
advantage.
As regards principles, the control exercised by the
Supreme Government is not unduly close : but Local
Governments should have a free hand where no
questions of principle are involved. There is a general
feeling that the proposals and schemes of Local
Governments are unduly delayed and hampered, and
their officers discouraged, by unduly detailed criticism
on the part of the Government of India. In my own
short experience a number of cases have occurred,
especially in regard to educational matters, where it
has been impossible not to feel that a hypercritical
attitude had been taken up by the Supreme Govern-
ment. Much delay and friction might be avoided if it
were understood that where the proposals of a Local
Government are accepted in principle, that Government
should be trusted to work out details, and criticism on
points of detail should be confined to suggestions,
which the Local Government should be at liberty to
accept or reject after considering all the circumstances.
Schemes should not be returned for revision on points
of detail unless this course is. for special reasons
unavoidable.
There are objections to the delegation by executive
order of powers conferred by Statute on a particular
authority. For instance, the authority by whom a
certain power is to be exercised may very well be a
matter on which a Legislative Council has strong views ;
and it seems to me doubtful whether those views, once
incorporated in the law, should be modified otherwise
than by a change in the law itself.
The right of appeal to higher authority is greatly
valued by the people, and is in accordance with the
traditions of the country. There is no question,
however, that, with approved communications appeals
have become infinitely more frequent, and that a
result of this is general disregard for authority. The
protection afforded to officers in Government Service
by the existing system of appeals unquestionably adds
greatly to the prestige and value of that Service. I
would not, therefore, recommend any curtailment of
the existing rights of appeal. However, more
authority would rest with the local officers if it were
understood that appeals, except where made under
a provision of law, should not be considered in
detail as a matter of course, but should be summarily
dismissed unless there is prima facie reason to believe
that a mistake has been made. I hold the same views
about appeals to Local Governments as about those to
the Supreme Government.-
As regards the relations of provincial Governments
with the authorities subordinate to them, any general
modification is impracticable. Unless the system of
Government is to be completely^ altered, the Head of a
provincial Government must have absolute discretion
as to his control over subordinate authorities. Any-
thing in the form of a constitution is outside the form
of practical politics. A great deal in the way of
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :
Hee Hon.
Mr. E. A.
Gait.
27 Dec., 1907.
Magistrate, would that add considerably to the con-
venience of the people ?—Yes, but you would have
largely to increase their number.
14695. Could some reduction then be made in the
police force ?—No, I do not think you could do that.
Our thanas are very big as it is ; there are very few
thanas of less than 100 square miles.
14696. But you could relieve them from all this
outside work ?—You could, but still I do not think it
would be possible to reduce their number.
14697. Would you allow compulsory retirement for
Civilians who had fa led, on the same terms as retire-
ment under a medical certificate ?—Yes.
14698. That is to say you would put inefficiency on
the same footing as misfortune ?—I think it would be
an administrative gain to get rid of incompetent men
even on those terms ; and in order to avoid hardship
as much as possible, I would treat them liberally ; I
might have said, perhaps that unsuitable men should
be retired on the same terms as were allowed until
recently for those who have to go on medical certifi-ate.
The rules for the latter have recently been made more
liberal than they were formerly.
14699. Have you a strict probationary period for the
Provincial Service?—We have probationers, but there
are very few cases in which they are not confirmed.
14700. From the point of view of pensions, would
it not be wise to considerably lengthen the period of
probation so as to enable you to fully test a man ?—
It would be so in theory, but it might make it more
difficult to recruit the same class of men ; men who
are willing to come to us now, might not come if they
thought they were liable to be turned out.
14701. Does any recruit come into any Service with
the idea that he is going to be a failure ?—No.
14702. Then how will it affect you ?—Because a
man might see another cast adrift after a time, and he
would say to himself that it was not safe to run the
risk of a similar fate.
14703. (Chairman.) Has the Commissioner power
to post officers, not merely in the suitor di- ate ranks
of the Provincial Service, but in the Civil Service ?—
No, the only officer he can post is the Sub-Deputy
Collector ; he has no power to post Deputy Collectors,
but I think he should have. It has already been
decided to give him this power when the recent
increase in the cadre becomes effective.
14704. What is the training for an Accountant-
General ?—The Accountant-General is generally a
Civilian w ho has been dealing with general work for
several years ; then he is transferred to the Accounts
Department as rn Assistant Accountant-General, and
after serving as Assistant Accountant-General in
several provinces, he is promoted to Accountant-
General.
14705. Is he an officer of sufficient experience and
capacity, as a rule, to be entrusted with the rather
large powers which you propose to give him ?—Yes, I
think so, you might have an eccentric man no v and
again, but generally I would entrust him with all
those powers.
14706. Are you certain, as a class, that Accountants-
General could be trusted with the delicate and
extensive powers which you propose ?—I do not
consider that I have proposed to give him extensive
powers ; I have proposed to define the cases in which
he might insist on reference to India.
14707. Are there a great number of manuals in
existence ?—Yes.
14708. Has any attempt been made by the Govern-
ment of Bengal to codify them, or amend them and
bring them up to date?—That is being done
constantly.
( The witness withdrew.)
The Hi n.
Mr. H. C.
Streatfeild.
27 Dec., 1907.
The Hon. Mr. H. C. Streatfeild was called and examined.
14709. (Chairman.) You are Officiating Secretary to
the Government of Bengal in the General and Judicial
Department ?—Yes.
I do not consider that any great extension of
financial powers can safely be given to Local Govern-
ments. There are many points of detail on which the
control of the Imperial Government is vexatious and
leads to delays and unnecessary correspondence ; but
the main principles of that control are salutary. The
importance of continuity in our administration is
supreme ; frequent change in the main lines of policy
must necessarily cause uncertainty in the minds of the
officers of Government and confusion and dissatis-
faction in those of the general public. The Head of
the Local Government changes of necessity every
five years, frequently at shorter intervals ; and while
the impress of a personality on the administration
is often healthy, it is most undesirable that the
principles of the administration should be funda-
mentally altered at short intervals according to the
personal predilections of its Chief. The control of
the Government of India has the effect of preserving
a general continuity of policy, and I should therefore
regret to see it relaxed : and this control can best
be exercised by means of financial rules. I am not
therefore in favour of any general relaxation of the
existing financial rules. Though there are numerous
details in which those rules might be modified with
advantage.
As regards principles, the control exercised by the
Supreme Government is not unduly close : but Local
Governments should have a free hand where no
questions of principle are involved. There is a general
feeling that the proposals and schemes of Local
Governments are unduly delayed and hampered, and
their officers discouraged, by unduly detailed criticism
on the part of the Government of India. In my own
short experience a number of cases have occurred,
especially in regard to educational matters, where it
has been impossible not to feel that a hypercritical
attitude had been taken up by the Supreme Govern-
ment. Much delay and friction might be avoided if it
were understood that where the proposals of a Local
Government are accepted in principle, that Government
should be trusted to work out details, and criticism on
points of detail should be confined to suggestions,
which the Local Government should be at liberty to
accept or reject after considering all the circumstances.
Schemes should not be returned for revision on points
of detail unless this course is. for special reasons
unavoidable.
There are objections to the delegation by executive
order of powers conferred by Statute on a particular
authority. For instance, the authority by whom a
certain power is to be exercised may very well be a
matter on which a Legislative Council has strong views ;
and it seems to me doubtful whether those views, once
incorporated in the law, should be modified otherwise
than by a change in the law itself.
The right of appeal to higher authority is greatly
valued by the people, and is in accordance with the
traditions of the country. There is no question,
however, that, with approved communications appeals
have become infinitely more frequent, and that a
result of this is general disregard for authority. The
protection afforded to officers in Government Service
by the existing system of appeals unquestionably adds
greatly to the prestige and value of that Service. I
would not, therefore, recommend any curtailment of
the existing rights of appeal. However, more
authority would rest with the local officers if it were
understood that appeals, except where made under
a provision of law, should not be considered in
detail as a matter of course, but should be summarily
dismissed unless there is prima facie reason to believe
that a mistake has been made. I hold the same views
about appeals to Local Governments as about those to
the Supreme Government.-
As regards the relations of provincial Governments
with the authorities subordinate to them, any general
modification is impracticable. Unless the system of
Government is to be completely^ altered, the Head of a
provincial Government must have absolute discretion
as to his control over subordinate authorities. Any-
thing in the form of a constitution is outside the form
of practical politics. A great deal in the way of