DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0035
ROYAL COMMISSION UPON DECENTRALIZATION.
29
14937. Are they what one might call ad hoc grants ?
—Yes.
14938. Is there any differentiation between a muni-
cipality and a District Board ; is it fair to argue that
because a District Board receives a grant in-aid a
municipality should have it too ?—It has been gene-
rally found that District Boards have shorter funds
than municipalities have.
14939. Is there anything in the argument that
land throughout a district pays heavier taxation to the
country than land included in municiple areas does ?—
I do not see how that argument can apply.
14940. Is there any reason why a municipality
should not have a grant-in-aid from the Government ?
—Ordinarily, their resources are sufficient to meet the
requirements of their administration
14941. Are their powers of taxation sufficient
already to enable them to carry on ?—I think so, but
for special work, such as water-works, or large schemes
of drainage, they come up for assistance from the
Government, and Government is always very liberal
in granting that assistance.
14942. Might the Government make a grant to-
wards making certain local water-works, while the local
authority would not have enough money to run them
when they were made ?—I think they ought to be able
to arrange for the upkeep.
14943. (Ifr. Dutt.) You are in favour of a General
Act authorizing the Local Government to delegate
powers to subordinate authorities ?—Yes.
14944. When certain powers have been reserved to
the Government by specific Acts, and the Govern-
ment delegates those powers to the Commissioner or
Collector under a general Act of devolution, do you
not think that, to some extent, public expectation is
defeated ?—I think the public ought to have the right
to object ; any such intention to delegate power ought
to be notified in the Gazette so as to give the public
an opportunity of raising an objection, if they have
any, by memorial or petition.
14945. But when an Act is passed and certain
powers are reserved to the Government, is that not
done with the idea that such powers shall not be
delegated except by another Act ?—Yes.
14946. Therefore would it not be a better procedure,
to delegate those powers by an amending Act ?—That
would be a troublesome process.
14947. Looking at it from the point of view of the
public, or of the Government Officer ?—There are
very few cases in which the public would have any
reason to object to delegation ; the Local Government
would only do it when it was satisfied that there
would be no detriment to the public interest.
14948. But there would be no opportunity of rais-
ing a debate in Council ; the public would only have
an opportunity of sending a memorial ?—But the
question might be raised in Council in the shape of an
interpellation.
14949. Do you make any recommendation for cur-
tailing the existing rights of appeal ?—Personally, I
do not.
14950. You think that the existing rights are good
in the way of fostering a sense of security in Govern-
ment officers ?—I think they are regarded in that
light.
14951. As a District Officer, you have been Chair-
man of the District Board ?—Yes.
14952. Have you had elected members who are
really anxious to help and advise you ?—I have.
14953. And who have proved useful and prudent
advisers ?—Yes.
14954. Then you are not prepared altogether to
support the criticism that a system of election will
not secure persons who would 1)6 both good and use-
ful ?— I. have not said that all the elected members are
of use to the District Officer—there are some no doubt
who are. I think the system of election might be
improved on, and that we might get better represen-
tation than we have at present.
14955. But you do not agree that the present
system of election will not secure such persons ?—Not
always.
14956. With regard to nominated members on
District Boards, I suppose you have found many who
are respected and whose action is independent ?—Yes.
14957. A nominated member is not necessarily an
object of suspicion by the people ?—Certainly not.
14958. And he is not often the object of vitupera-
tion by his own countrymen ?—I do not think so.
14959. With regard to the appointment of Euro-
peans, the Government of Bengal has asked for
power to appoint in cases where professional or
technical qualifications are required ? Are such cases
very rare ?—They are.
14960. Therefore there is no urgent necessity for
the Government of India to withdraw their power in
that matter ?—It is a power which the Local Govern-
ment ought to have ; there would be many more
references from other Local Governments.
14961. But so far as the Local Government of
Bengal is concerned, the necessity is not urgent ?—It
is desirable that they should have it.
14962. Would it save very much trouble and work
if that power was granted?—Not very much, but it
might be that an urgent matter might arise ; for in-.
stance, in the Marine Department an urgent case
might arise, and it is very undesirable that the matter
should have to be referred, say, to Simla.
14963. Is the rule made by the Secretary of State ?
— -It is a rule of the Civil Service Regulations.
14964. Recommendations have been made that
Municipal Commissioners should be appointed by the
Divisional Commisioner instead of by the Govern-
ment ; Should the power be kept in the hands of the
Government ?—No, I think it could be properly
delegated to the Divisional Commissioner.
14965. When a Chairman is elected under the
present law, his election is sanctioned by the Govern-
ment ?—Yes, it is a mere formality.
14966. A recommendation has been made that such
election should be sanctioned by the Commissioner of
the Division ; do you agree with that ?—It would
save a great deal of unnecessary correspondence ; it
is a pure formality.
14967. But does it give the Government very
much work ?—Yes, it does ; I do not know how many
cases there have been, but there have been a large
number.
14968. But does it involve much work in each case ?
■—Yes, two or three letters have to be written.
14969. Would Municipal Commissioners themselves
prefer appointment by the Divisional Commissioner or
by the Government ?—I do not think they would
trouble much about it.
14970. There is a recommendation that Assistant
Surgeons, who, I understand, are Gazetted Officers,
should be posted by the Head of the Department to
actual vacancies ?—Should not their appointments
rest in the hands of the Government ?—I do not think
it is at all necessary ; in fact, the Government is
practically bound to accept the Inspector-General’s
nomination.
14971. I find that there have been only 34 such
appointments made during the list three years, so that
there would not be much saving of work ?—If you
take individual cases, of course, there would not be,
but taking them altogether there would be an
enormous amount of work saved.
14972. In that matter also you do not know exactly
what the Assistant Surgeons themselves would like ?—
I cannot say.
14973. (Sir Frederic Lely.) In oneTespect you have
had rather an exceptional experience, having been five
years a Collector of a district. Can you give us any
explanation as to why you remained so long ?—Simply
because I remained there, and did not take any
leave.
14974. Do appeals from the Board of Revenue come
through you ?—Yes, any matter coming to the
Government comes through me.
14975. Does a great portion of your work consist
of appeals ?—Appeals are generally dealt w ith by the
Board of Revenue.
The Hoh.
Mr. C. E. A.
Oldham.
27 Dec., 1907.
29
14937. Are they what one might call ad hoc grants ?
—Yes.
14938. Is there any differentiation between a muni-
cipality and a District Board ; is it fair to argue that
because a District Board receives a grant in-aid a
municipality should have it too ?—It has been gene-
rally found that District Boards have shorter funds
than municipalities have.
14939. Is there anything in the argument that
land throughout a district pays heavier taxation to the
country than land included in municiple areas does ?—
I do not see how that argument can apply.
14940. Is there any reason why a municipality
should not have a grant-in-aid from the Government ?
—Ordinarily, their resources are sufficient to meet the
requirements of their administration
14941. Are their powers of taxation sufficient
already to enable them to carry on ?—I think so, but
for special work, such as water-works, or large schemes
of drainage, they come up for assistance from the
Government, and Government is always very liberal
in granting that assistance.
14942. Might the Government make a grant to-
wards making certain local water-works, while the local
authority would not have enough money to run them
when they were made ?—I think they ought to be able
to arrange for the upkeep.
14943. (Ifr. Dutt.) You are in favour of a General
Act authorizing the Local Government to delegate
powers to subordinate authorities ?—Yes.
14944. When certain powers have been reserved to
the Government by specific Acts, and the Govern-
ment delegates those powers to the Commissioner or
Collector under a general Act of devolution, do you
not think that, to some extent, public expectation is
defeated ?—I think the public ought to have the right
to object ; any such intention to delegate power ought
to be notified in the Gazette so as to give the public
an opportunity of raising an objection, if they have
any, by memorial or petition.
14945. But when an Act is passed and certain
powers are reserved to the Government, is that not
done with the idea that such powers shall not be
delegated except by another Act ?—Yes.
14946. Therefore would it not be a better procedure,
to delegate those powers by an amending Act ?—That
would be a troublesome process.
14947. Looking at it from the point of view of the
public, or of the Government Officer ?—There are
very few cases in which the public would have any
reason to object to delegation ; the Local Government
would only do it when it was satisfied that there
would be no detriment to the public interest.
14948. But there would be no opportunity of rais-
ing a debate in Council ; the public would only have
an opportunity of sending a memorial ?—But the
question might be raised in Council in the shape of an
interpellation.
14949. Do you make any recommendation for cur-
tailing the existing rights of appeal ?—Personally, I
do not.
14950. You think that the existing rights are good
in the way of fostering a sense of security in Govern-
ment officers ?—I think they are regarded in that
light.
14951. As a District Officer, you have been Chair-
man of the District Board ?—Yes.
14952. Have you had elected members who are
really anxious to help and advise you ?—I have.
14953. And who have proved useful and prudent
advisers ?—Yes.
14954. Then you are not prepared altogether to
support the criticism that a system of election will
not secure persons who would 1)6 both good and use-
ful ?— I. have not said that all the elected members are
of use to the District Officer—there are some no doubt
who are. I think the system of election might be
improved on, and that we might get better represen-
tation than we have at present.
14955. But you do not agree that the present
system of election will not secure such persons ?—Not
always.
14956. With regard to nominated members on
District Boards, I suppose you have found many who
are respected and whose action is independent ?—Yes.
14957. A nominated member is not necessarily an
object of suspicion by the people ?—Certainly not.
14958. And he is not often the object of vitupera-
tion by his own countrymen ?—I do not think so.
14959. With regard to the appointment of Euro-
peans, the Government of Bengal has asked for
power to appoint in cases where professional or
technical qualifications are required ? Are such cases
very rare ?—They are.
14960. Therefore there is no urgent necessity for
the Government of India to withdraw their power in
that matter ?—It is a power which the Local Govern-
ment ought to have ; there would be many more
references from other Local Governments.
14961. But so far as the Local Government of
Bengal is concerned, the necessity is not urgent ?—It
is desirable that they should have it.
14962. Would it save very much trouble and work
if that power was granted?—Not very much, but it
might be that an urgent matter might arise ; for in-.
stance, in the Marine Department an urgent case
might arise, and it is very undesirable that the matter
should have to be referred, say, to Simla.
14963. Is the rule made by the Secretary of State ?
— -It is a rule of the Civil Service Regulations.
14964. Recommendations have been made that
Municipal Commissioners should be appointed by the
Divisional Commisioner instead of by the Govern-
ment ; Should the power be kept in the hands of the
Government ?—No, I think it could be properly
delegated to the Divisional Commissioner.
14965. When a Chairman is elected under the
present law, his election is sanctioned by the Govern-
ment ?—Yes, it is a mere formality.
14966. A recommendation has been made that such
election should be sanctioned by the Commissioner of
the Division ; do you agree with that ?—It would
save a great deal of unnecessary correspondence ; it
is a pure formality.
14967. But does it give the Government very
much work ?—Yes, it does ; I do not know how many
cases there have been, but there have been a large
number.
14968. But does it involve much work in each case ?
■—Yes, two or three letters have to be written.
14969. Would Municipal Commissioners themselves
prefer appointment by the Divisional Commissioner or
by the Government ?—I do not think they would
trouble much about it.
14970. There is a recommendation that Assistant
Surgeons, who, I understand, are Gazetted Officers,
should be posted by the Head of the Department to
actual vacancies ?—Should not their appointments
rest in the hands of the Government ?—I do not think
it is at all necessary ; in fact, the Government is
practically bound to accept the Inspector-General’s
nomination.
14971. I find that there have been only 34 such
appointments made during the list three years, so that
there would not be much saving of work ?—If you
take individual cases, of course, there would not be,
but taking them altogether there would be an
enormous amount of work saved.
14972. In that matter also you do not know exactly
what the Assistant Surgeons themselves would like ?—
I cannot say.
14973. (Sir Frederic Lely.) In oneTespect you have
had rather an exceptional experience, having been five
years a Collector of a district. Can you give us any
explanation as to why you remained so long ?—Simply
because I remained there, and did not take any
leave.
14974. Do appeals from the Board of Revenue come
through you ?—Yes, any matter coming to the
Government comes through me.
14975. Does a great portion of your work consist
of appeals ?—Appeals are generally dealt w ith by the
Board of Revenue.
The Hoh.
Mr. C. E. A.
Oldham.
27 Dec., 1907.