DOI Seite / Zitierlink:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0050
44
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :
Maharaja
Manindra
Chandra
JVandy.
28 Dec., 1907.
15325. But you said that the District Board should
have power to allot money and do everything that is
wanted ?—Yes, and that the District Magistrate should
see to it from time to time.
15326. But would not the Chairman of the District
Board become a much bigger person in a district than
a Collector. The real person to whom the people
would look to do things for them in the way of roads,
schools and drainage would be the elected Chairman
of the District Board, and the Collector would cease
to be the real representative of Government then ?—
Yes.
15327. You say that there are certain municipalities
which you would like to treat like Calcutta ; do you
mean the very large ones, or a great number of them ?
—I mean the very large ones—not a great number.
15328. (Sir Steyning Edgerley.) You think that a
preferable constitution for a province would be a
Governor and Council and Commissioners. You did
not make it quite clear whether you required a Board
of Revenue under that system ?—Yes.
15329. If you magnify the Commissioner’s powers
and also add a Governor-in-Council, is not the Board
of Revenue rather squeezed out—what useful work
could it do ?—I think not ; they would have something
to do. I would still leave the Board.
15330. With regard to appeals you suggested that
there should be no change, but do you refer simply to
appeals by officers, or to appeals by litigants ?—I refer
to appeals by litigants and officers also.
15331. As regards litigants, there are always two
parties concerned, and in obtaining your suggested
consolation for an appellant are you not rather ill-
using the man who has won his case in two or three
Courts ?—That may be so, but in some cases it would
not be so.
15332. Supposing a case where the two first Courts
were absolutely concurrent and certain about the
facts, would it not be rather worrying a man who had
won to allow an appellant to carry him on from Court
to Court?—In some cases it might be. It is very
difficult to say, but my point is that an appeal should
be granted notwithstanding the hardship.
15333. You have recommended certain Advisory
Councils and village panehayats, and various things of
that description, but would you not want legislation
if you once had election to these Councils ?—Yes.
15334. How would you proceed ; would you proceed
by an Act which should endeavour to make an exact
constitution for each Council, or would you have a very
general rule-making clause which would enable you
to make experiments ?—I would have a general rule.
15335. So that you might try one thing in one
district and another thing in another ?—Not in that
way ; an experiment in one district would do.
15336. But you would not try to be precise in the
first instance ?—Yes.
15337. Would you try a precise Act, or would you
try a very general Act giving power to make rules ?—
I would have a general power to make rules.
15338. (Sir Frederic Lely.) How do other people
regard a District Board in a district ; do they regard
it as really representing them, and do they consider
that they have an interest in its proceedings ?—The
people think that it is a Government office.
15339. Do they not evince any interest in its
proceedings ?—No.
15340. Then it is not, in any true sense, a repre-
sentative body ?—No, it is not at all.
15341. In Bengal villages is there a good deal of
faction, and a great deal of jealousy of the panchayat,
for instance?—Not in every village, but there are
villages, or village people, who have jealousies.
15342. As a matter of fact, if power is given to
anyone in a village, would not that usually mean in
Bengal power to the zamindar ?—No.
15343. Is not the zamindar all powerful on his
estate ?•—But you do not find a zamindar in every
village.
15344. Practically every village is in some zamindar’s
estate ?—No.
15345. Most of them ?—No ; in many cases the
zamindar never interferes with village matters. In
some cases, such as boundary questions between two
villages, and with regard to money matters and other
things, he does act.
15346. Do you think generally in village matters
the zamindar would leave the people to themselves
and not interfere with them ?—Yes.
15347. Is your proposition that District Councils
are to be elected by municipalities and District
Boards ?—-Yes.
15348. Then the lower castes would have no repre-
sentation ?—-Yes, even in the lower castes you can get
good men now-a-days, but I do not say in every
village.
15349. Do you know of any District Board at
present which has a low caste representative member
on it ?—No.
15350. Or any municipality ?—Yes, I do, he was
elected.
15351. Do you know of more cases than one ?—No.
15352. Would a low caste man have much chance of
being elected to the District Council ?—I cannot tell
you whether he would be elected by the people, or
not.
15353. Would you yourself stand for election?—
Yes, I am Chairman of the municipality. I was
elected.
15354. (Mr. Dutt.) The members of the District
Board are now partly nominated and partly elected ?—
Yes.
15355. Are the zamindars and men of social standing
prevented by the prevailing feeling of the country
from seeking election ?—I cannot speak as to that.
15356. Would they willingly appear as candidates
for election do you think ?—Yes.
15357. They would not be disgraced in the eyes of
their countrymen if they stood as candidates ?—No.
15358. When pleaders are elected as members of
the District Board, do you, as zamindar, think that
your interests are neglected?—Yes, if only pleaders
are elected, of course in that case I should think my
interests were neglected.
15359. Do zamindars themselves sometimes elect
pleaders as then: representatives ?—Formerly it was
the custom, but now-a-days it is not.
15360. Have zamindars elected pleaders as their
representatives on Councils and District Boards?—
Yes, but not as pleaders, but as their qualified
representatives.
15361. A proposal has been made that every class
should return a member from their own class so that
cultivating raiyats should return such a member ; in
your opinion, in a small sub-division, would the
raiyats be able to find a properly qualified raiyat to
represent their interests on a Board ?—No, I do not
think they would be able to find such a man among
their class, but in some places you can find them.
15362. So that if you restricted the selection to
their own class, their interests would suffer?—No,
their interests would not suffer ; but it would be
better if there was a representative for all classes of
people ; if, however, a representative cannot be found
from each class, they should be allowed to select one
from some other class.
15363. Would you allow the people to select a
representative from any class they liked ?—Yes.
15364. With regard to nominated members, when
men of position and local standing are nominated
members of a Board, do they lose the respect of their
countrymen ?—Yes.
15365. They are no longer respected by their
countrymen ?—No.
15366. What is the cause of that feeling ?—Because
it is felt that they will follow the advice of the
Magistrate.
15367. But supposing they are independent men ?—
If such a man be an independent man he will be
regarded as a respectable man, no doubt.
15368. So that depends more upon his own
personality ?—Yes.
15369. (Mr. Hichens.) Does your work as Chairman
of a municipality take up a lot of your time?—-Yes, at
least two hours a day.
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :
Maharaja
Manindra
Chandra
JVandy.
28 Dec., 1907.
15325. But you said that the District Board should
have power to allot money and do everything that is
wanted ?—Yes, and that the District Magistrate should
see to it from time to time.
15326. But would not the Chairman of the District
Board become a much bigger person in a district than
a Collector. The real person to whom the people
would look to do things for them in the way of roads,
schools and drainage would be the elected Chairman
of the District Board, and the Collector would cease
to be the real representative of Government then ?—
Yes.
15327. You say that there are certain municipalities
which you would like to treat like Calcutta ; do you
mean the very large ones, or a great number of them ?
—I mean the very large ones—not a great number.
15328. (Sir Steyning Edgerley.) You think that a
preferable constitution for a province would be a
Governor and Council and Commissioners. You did
not make it quite clear whether you required a Board
of Revenue under that system ?—Yes.
15329. If you magnify the Commissioner’s powers
and also add a Governor-in-Council, is not the Board
of Revenue rather squeezed out—what useful work
could it do ?—I think not ; they would have something
to do. I would still leave the Board.
15330. With regard to appeals you suggested that
there should be no change, but do you refer simply to
appeals by officers, or to appeals by litigants ?—I refer
to appeals by litigants and officers also.
15331. As regards litigants, there are always two
parties concerned, and in obtaining your suggested
consolation for an appellant are you not rather ill-
using the man who has won his case in two or three
Courts ?—That may be so, but in some cases it would
not be so.
15332. Supposing a case where the two first Courts
were absolutely concurrent and certain about the
facts, would it not be rather worrying a man who had
won to allow an appellant to carry him on from Court
to Court?—In some cases it might be. It is very
difficult to say, but my point is that an appeal should
be granted notwithstanding the hardship.
15333. You have recommended certain Advisory
Councils and village panehayats, and various things of
that description, but would you not want legislation
if you once had election to these Councils ?—Yes.
15334. How would you proceed ; would you proceed
by an Act which should endeavour to make an exact
constitution for each Council, or would you have a very
general rule-making clause which would enable you
to make experiments ?—I would have a general rule.
15335. So that you might try one thing in one
district and another thing in another ?—Not in that
way ; an experiment in one district would do.
15336. But you would not try to be precise in the
first instance ?—Yes.
15337. Would you try a precise Act, or would you
try a very general Act giving power to make rules ?—
I would have a general power to make rules.
15338. (Sir Frederic Lely.) How do other people
regard a District Board in a district ; do they regard
it as really representing them, and do they consider
that they have an interest in its proceedings ?—The
people think that it is a Government office.
15339. Do they not evince any interest in its
proceedings ?—No.
15340. Then it is not, in any true sense, a repre-
sentative body ?—No, it is not at all.
15341. In Bengal villages is there a good deal of
faction, and a great deal of jealousy of the panchayat,
for instance?—Not in every village, but there are
villages, or village people, who have jealousies.
15342. As a matter of fact, if power is given to
anyone in a village, would not that usually mean in
Bengal power to the zamindar ?—No.
15343. Is not the zamindar all powerful on his
estate ?•—But you do not find a zamindar in every
village.
15344. Practically every village is in some zamindar’s
estate ?—No.
15345. Most of them ?—No ; in many cases the
zamindar never interferes with village matters. In
some cases, such as boundary questions between two
villages, and with regard to money matters and other
things, he does act.
15346. Do you think generally in village matters
the zamindar would leave the people to themselves
and not interfere with them ?—Yes.
15347. Is your proposition that District Councils
are to be elected by municipalities and District
Boards ?—-Yes.
15348. Then the lower castes would have no repre-
sentation ?—-Yes, even in the lower castes you can get
good men now-a-days, but I do not say in every
village.
15349. Do you know of any District Board at
present which has a low caste representative member
on it ?—No.
15350. Or any municipality ?—Yes, I do, he was
elected.
15351. Do you know of more cases than one ?—No.
15352. Would a low caste man have much chance of
being elected to the District Council ?—I cannot tell
you whether he would be elected by the people, or
not.
15353. Would you yourself stand for election?—
Yes, I am Chairman of the municipality. I was
elected.
15354. (Mr. Dutt.) The members of the District
Board are now partly nominated and partly elected ?—
Yes.
15355. Are the zamindars and men of social standing
prevented by the prevailing feeling of the country
from seeking election ?—I cannot speak as to that.
15356. Would they willingly appear as candidates
for election do you think ?—Yes.
15357. They would not be disgraced in the eyes of
their countrymen if they stood as candidates ?—No.
15358. When pleaders are elected as members of
the District Board, do you, as zamindar, think that
your interests are neglected?—Yes, if only pleaders
are elected, of course in that case I should think my
interests were neglected.
15359. Do zamindars themselves sometimes elect
pleaders as then: representatives ?—Formerly it was
the custom, but now-a-days it is not.
15360. Have zamindars elected pleaders as their
representatives on Councils and District Boards?—
Yes, but not as pleaders, but as their qualified
representatives.
15361. A proposal has been made that every class
should return a member from their own class so that
cultivating raiyats should return such a member ; in
your opinion, in a small sub-division, would the
raiyats be able to find a properly qualified raiyat to
represent their interests on a Board ?—No, I do not
think they would be able to find such a man among
their class, but in some places you can find them.
15362. So that if you restricted the selection to
their own class, their interests would suffer?—No,
their interests would not suffer ; but it would be
better if there was a representative for all classes of
people ; if, however, a representative cannot be found
from each class, they should be allowed to select one
from some other class.
15363. Would you allow the people to select a
representative from any class they liked ?—Yes.
15364. With regard to nominated members, when
men of position and local standing are nominated
members of a Board, do they lose the respect of their
countrymen ?—Yes.
15365. They are no longer respected by their
countrymen ?—No.
15366. What is the cause of that feeling ?—Because
it is felt that they will follow the advice of the
Magistrate.
15367. But supposing they are independent men ?—
If such a man be an independent man he will be
regarded as a respectable man, no doubt.
15368. So that depends more upon his own
personality ?—Yes.
15369. (Mr. Hichens.) Does your work as Chairman
of a municipality take up a lot of your time?—-Yes, at
least two hours a day.