DOI Seite / Zitierlink:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0055
ROYAL COMMISSION UPON DECENTRALIZATION.
49
15484. Might such powers of control as are still
required very well be exercised by the Collector ?—■
Yes.
15485. You referred to the section of the Local
Government Act under which the District Magistrate
or the Divisional Commissioner can suspend an order
of the local authority. Is that section much applied in
practice ?—No, not at present ; there is hardly any
necessity for it, because the District Magistrate is the
Chairman.
15486. But the section also applies to municipalities.
Is it in practice applied to municipalities ?—Very
seldom : there is a difference in the wording. Iff the
case of municipalities the District Magistrate can only
suspend the operation of any order of the municipality
if there is a chance of any riot or breach of the peace,
and the word “ serious ” does not appear in the Local
Self-Government Act.
15487. You have referred to powers which might be
given to the village headman in Bengal, following the
system in Madras, but is there not a material difference
between a Madras village and a Bengal village : in
Madras there is a real village community which has
always existed, but in Bengal you have no real village
community ?—It has practically ceased to exist, but
we want to revive it.
15488. Is it safe to predicate from what has been EaV Goswami
done in Madras that it may be done equally well with Eahadur.
regard to the ehaukidari unions in Bengal ?—I have _
not much experience with regard to the working of the 28 Dee., 1907.
unions. ' -
15489. You spoke of the panchayats being under
the control of the police, but is it not the fact that
lately the Bengal Government remedied that state of
things and have endeavoured to make them inde-
pendent ?—Yes, they have just recently commenced
to do that.
15490. Have you had any opportunity of watching
the working of that system ?—-No.
15491. (Chairman.) Would you remove the right of
the Commissioner to interfere in any way with muni-
cipal budgets ?—Yes, I want to restrict his power of
interference.
15492. The last witness said that he would give him
power to interfere as to major heads of the budget,
but not with the details. Would you prefer the sug-
gestion which you make, or would you' accept the
limited power of interference which the last witness
suggested ?—I stick to what I said.
(The witness withdrew.)
Mr. Madhusudan Das, c.i.e., M.A., b.l., was called and examined.
15493. (Chairman.) Where do you live? — In
Cuttack. I am a pleader and a merchant and landed
proprietor.
15494. You have been Chairman of the Local Board
and Vice-Chairman of the District Board, and also a
member of the Legislative Council of Bengal ?—Yes.
An Act of delegation on the principle of Act V. of
1868, somewhat modified, is necessary in the case of
Orissa. The jurisdiction of the High Court should
not be interfered with.
Extended powers, in matters relating to revenue,
should be given to. the Board of Revenue and to the
Commissioners. The existing powers of the Collectors
are not properly exercised, because the Collector has
not sufficient time. The Collector should be relieved
of his magisterial duties. The Magistrate should be
a different officer. Extended powers regarding matters
relating to the Court of Wards should be given to the
Board of Revenue by extending their power to manage
estates of proprietors who seek their help, though not
disqualified. The Board’s and the Collector’s powers
to do anything which affects the interests of the ward
should be cut down.
It is desirable to allow Commissioners to control
expenditure in their divisions.
To ensure public confidence in British justice one
appeal (above board) should be allowed, and that not
to Government, but to the Board of Revenue. Appeals
to Local Governments in the generality of cases serve
only to shake public confidence in British justice, as
they serve no practical purpose.
I do consider the influence of the provincial Govern-
ment is in the direction of excessive rigidity. Reform
should be in the direction of greater latitude of dis-
cretion to the Board of Revenue and Commissioners.
Executive Officers have not time, inclination and
language qualification for personal contact with the
people. To make up for contact with the people they
derive information from some whom they wrongly
believe to represent the people. They do not possess
sufficient knowledge of the vernaculars. In some.cases
the existing territorial adjustment of districts and
divisions entails the knowledge of more than one
vernacular, which is not desirable. An increase in the
administrative staff is necessary in some cases.
The grant of larger powers to Commissioners will
involve greater care in their selection, and the rule of
seniority should not be allowed to override the per-
sonal qualifications.
Transfers are unnecessarily frequent. Sometimes the
transfers increase the evil they were meant to remedy.
A minimum period of district and divisional service
should be fixed, and this should be extended in con-
sideration of the satisfactory discharge of duties.
The Heads of Departments, such as Registration,
Police, should have greater power in the matter of
appointments and punishment of their subordinates.
33263
District Boards should have non-official Chairmen,
and official interference should be withdrawn.
I am in favour of Advisory and Administrative ,, ‘ ,
Councils—byelection of two-thirds of the members, an
and one-third by nomination, and they should deal
with all matters which concern the interests of any 28 Dec 1907
appreciable portion of the public.
Petty criminal and civil cases might be entrusted to
village communities. In matters sanitary and educa-
tional they might at first be entrusted with the work
of helping the Government officials with a view to
prepare them for a future responsible share in the
work.
Decentralization in Orissa should aim at bringing
together the whole of the Uriya-speaking tract under
one local administration. In the present administra-
tive adjustment of the Uriya-speaking tract, the
Uriya-speaking population is distributed among three
Local Governments. This is injurious from the
Government’s, as well as the people’s, point of interest.
15495. Would you like to see Commissioners in
Bengal vested with powers similar1 to those of the
Commissioner in Sind ?—Yes, that is my opinion,
from my experience with regard to Orissa ; I cannot
speak as to other parts, because my experience has
been confined to Orissa.
15496. Do you know whether there are, or are not,
a number o£ sales in connection with the land revenue ?
—Yes, there is a large number in Orissa. Sometimes
in the Cuttack district alone, the cases in which the
people have failed to pay on the sunset day are as
many as 150.
15497. In connection with these sales, is the mode
of collection of the revenue unduly harsh ?—Some of
these estates do not really pay the person with whom
the settlement has been made, and, as a matter of fact,
there are some estates which are always being sc#l ;
somebody buys an estate, and he very soon afterwards
finds out that it does not pay ; so he lets it go to
auction again, and the result is that there are some
estates which no one will buy.
15498. That, I suppose, is one of the difficulties of
the permanent settlement ?—We have a temporary
settlement in Orissa. The reason is that the last settle-
ment was made in rather an unsatisfactory manner.
15499. Then is it more due to accident than any-
thing else ?—I do not think it is due to accident ; I
think it is due to a wrong principle in the selection
of officers for the settlement.
15500. Is there anything inherently bad in the laws
or rules ?—Yes. Under Regulation 7 of 1822 settle-
ment was to be supervised and conducted by the
Collector and Commissioner who would understand
all about the district and about the revenue, but, in-
stead of that, the last settlement was conducted, as
the present revision is being conducted, by men who
are not actually responsible for the actual administra-
tion of the place ; they are people who are sent from
G
49
15484. Might such powers of control as are still
required very well be exercised by the Collector ?—■
Yes.
15485. You referred to the section of the Local
Government Act under which the District Magistrate
or the Divisional Commissioner can suspend an order
of the local authority. Is that section much applied in
practice ?—No, not at present ; there is hardly any
necessity for it, because the District Magistrate is the
Chairman.
15486. But the section also applies to municipalities.
Is it in practice applied to municipalities ?—Very
seldom : there is a difference in the wording. Iff the
case of municipalities the District Magistrate can only
suspend the operation of any order of the municipality
if there is a chance of any riot or breach of the peace,
and the word “ serious ” does not appear in the Local
Self-Government Act.
15487. You have referred to powers which might be
given to the village headman in Bengal, following the
system in Madras, but is there not a material difference
between a Madras village and a Bengal village : in
Madras there is a real village community which has
always existed, but in Bengal you have no real village
community ?—It has practically ceased to exist, but
we want to revive it.
15488. Is it safe to predicate from what has been EaV Goswami
done in Madras that it may be done equally well with Eahadur.
regard to the ehaukidari unions in Bengal ?—I have _
not much experience with regard to the working of the 28 Dee., 1907.
unions. ' -
15489. You spoke of the panchayats being under
the control of the police, but is it not the fact that
lately the Bengal Government remedied that state of
things and have endeavoured to make them inde-
pendent ?—Yes, they have just recently commenced
to do that.
15490. Have you had any opportunity of watching
the working of that system ?—-No.
15491. (Chairman.) Would you remove the right of
the Commissioner to interfere in any way with muni-
cipal budgets ?—Yes, I want to restrict his power of
interference.
15492. The last witness said that he would give him
power to interfere as to major heads of the budget,
but not with the details. Would you prefer the sug-
gestion which you make, or would you' accept the
limited power of interference which the last witness
suggested ?—I stick to what I said.
(The witness withdrew.)
Mr. Madhusudan Das, c.i.e., M.A., b.l., was called and examined.
15493. (Chairman.) Where do you live? — In
Cuttack. I am a pleader and a merchant and landed
proprietor.
15494. You have been Chairman of the Local Board
and Vice-Chairman of the District Board, and also a
member of the Legislative Council of Bengal ?—Yes.
An Act of delegation on the principle of Act V. of
1868, somewhat modified, is necessary in the case of
Orissa. The jurisdiction of the High Court should
not be interfered with.
Extended powers, in matters relating to revenue,
should be given to. the Board of Revenue and to the
Commissioners. The existing powers of the Collectors
are not properly exercised, because the Collector has
not sufficient time. The Collector should be relieved
of his magisterial duties. The Magistrate should be
a different officer. Extended powers regarding matters
relating to the Court of Wards should be given to the
Board of Revenue by extending their power to manage
estates of proprietors who seek their help, though not
disqualified. The Board’s and the Collector’s powers
to do anything which affects the interests of the ward
should be cut down.
It is desirable to allow Commissioners to control
expenditure in their divisions.
To ensure public confidence in British justice one
appeal (above board) should be allowed, and that not
to Government, but to the Board of Revenue. Appeals
to Local Governments in the generality of cases serve
only to shake public confidence in British justice, as
they serve no practical purpose.
I do consider the influence of the provincial Govern-
ment is in the direction of excessive rigidity. Reform
should be in the direction of greater latitude of dis-
cretion to the Board of Revenue and Commissioners.
Executive Officers have not time, inclination and
language qualification for personal contact with the
people. To make up for contact with the people they
derive information from some whom they wrongly
believe to represent the people. They do not possess
sufficient knowledge of the vernaculars. In some.cases
the existing territorial adjustment of districts and
divisions entails the knowledge of more than one
vernacular, which is not desirable. An increase in the
administrative staff is necessary in some cases.
The grant of larger powers to Commissioners will
involve greater care in their selection, and the rule of
seniority should not be allowed to override the per-
sonal qualifications.
Transfers are unnecessarily frequent. Sometimes the
transfers increase the evil they were meant to remedy.
A minimum period of district and divisional service
should be fixed, and this should be extended in con-
sideration of the satisfactory discharge of duties.
The Heads of Departments, such as Registration,
Police, should have greater power in the matter of
appointments and punishment of their subordinates.
33263
District Boards should have non-official Chairmen,
and official interference should be withdrawn.
I am in favour of Advisory and Administrative ,, ‘ ,
Councils—byelection of two-thirds of the members, an
and one-third by nomination, and they should deal
with all matters which concern the interests of any 28 Dec 1907
appreciable portion of the public.
Petty criminal and civil cases might be entrusted to
village communities. In matters sanitary and educa-
tional they might at first be entrusted with the work
of helping the Government officials with a view to
prepare them for a future responsible share in the
work.
Decentralization in Orissa should aim at bringing
together the whole of the Uriya-speaking tract under
one local administration. In the present administra-
tive adjustment of the Uriya-speaking tract, the
Uriya-speaking population is distributed among three
Local Governments. This is injurious from the
Government’s, as well as the people’s, point of interest.
15495. Would you like to see Commissioners in
Bengal vested with powers similar1 to those of the
Commissioner in Sind ?—Yes, that is my opinion,
from my experience with regard to Orissa ; I cannot
speak as to other parts, because my experience has
been confined to Orissa.
15496. Do you know whether there are, or are not,
a number o£ sales in connection with the land revenue ?
—Yes, there is a large number in Orissa. Sometimes
in the Cuttack district alone, the cases in which the
people have failed to pay on the sunset day are as
many as 150.
15497. In connection with these sales, is the mode
of collection of the revenue unduly harsh ?—Some of
these estates do not really pay the person with whom
the settlement has been made, and, as a matter of fact,
there are some estates which are always being sc#l ;
somebody buys an estate, and he very soon afterwards
finds out that it does not pay ; so he lets it go to
auction again, and the result is that there are some
estates which no one will buy.
15498. That, I suppose, is one of the difficulties of
the permanent settlement ?—We have a temporary
settlement in Orissa. The reason is that the last settle-
ment was made in rather an unsatisfactory manner.
15499. Then is it more due to accident than any-
thing else ?—I do not think it is due to accident ; I
think it is due to a wrong principle in the selection
of officers for the settlement.
15500. Is there anything inherently bad in the laws
or rules ?—Yes. Under Regulation 7 of 1822 settle-
ment was to be supervised and conducted by the
Collector and Commissioner who would understand
all about the district and about the revenue, but, in-
stead of that, the last settlement was conducted, as
the present revision is being conducted, by men who
are not actually responsible for the actual administra-
tion of the place ; they are people who are sent from
G