DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0070
64
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :
Rai Tarini 15891. Should a provincial Government be allowed
Prasad to make its own budget as it likes without any
Bahadur. criticism ?—I think not.
30 Dec. 1907. 15892. Supposing the budget were fully discussed in
_L ' the provincial Legislature, would you modify your
opinion with regard to the criticisms of the Govern-
ment of India, and would you say under those circum-
stances it might no longer be necessary to refer it ?—
If the provincial Governments were given power to
discuss imperial budgets, then, of course, I would
certainly have no objection. But so far as minute
details are concerned, I adhere to my opinion that
they should be left to provincial Governments without
having to go up for the sanction of the Government of
India.
15893. (Hfr. Dutt.) I suppose all those matters
regarding the financial settlement are settled by
correspondence between the provincial Government
and the Imperial Government, and are not discussed
in the Legislative assembly ? —I think so.
15894. So that the Legislative Council has no
opportunity of knowing what is being done in these
matters until they have been decided ?—That is so.
15895. Is the Bengal budget discussed after it has
received the sanction of the Government of India ?—
Yes, always.
15896. Therefore if, in the course of the discussion,
any changes appear to be necessary, there is no
machinery for introducing those changes ? — None
whatever.
15897. So that practically the discussion is only
academic and is of no practical value ?—That is so.
15898. Would you like a scheme by which discus-
sion might take place in the Bengal Council before
the budget went up to the Government of India for
sanction, so that if the Lieutenant Governor thought
it desirable to make any changes in the budget after
discussion, he might be able to make them before sub-
mission to the Government of India ?—Yes.
15899. In speaking of the Bengal Government one
means only the Lieutenant-Governor ?—-Yes.
15900. And the items in the budget are practically
settled by the Lieutenant-Governor ?—Yes.
15901. You referred to certain matters in regard to
which the Local Government ought to have larger
powers, but sometimes are not changes in adminis-
trative systems brought about too frequently ?—
Sometimes they are, but there are sometimes urgent
reforms which must be dealt with.
15902. Has not every Lieutenant-Governor views
and ideas of his own differing from those of his
predecessor ?—Every Lieutenant-Governor no doubt
has some pronounced views different from those of
his predecessor.
15903. And to some extent there is a change in the
policy of a Government with every new Lieutenant-
Governor ?—Yes.
15904. Would there be more continuity of policy if
Lieutenant-Governors were assisted by an Executive
Council of two or more members ?—Yes.
15905. On the whole, would there be less chance of
sudden and needless changes if there was an Executive
Council to help the Head of the Government ?—Yes,
I think it would be better.
15906. With regard to borrowing powers, did you
mention a lakh of rupees as an approximate limit to
which Local Governments might go ?—No, I simply
gave that as illustrating the principle I put forward ;
I do not say that that should necessarily be the sum ;
it might be a smaller sum.
15907. Have you any idea what approximate sum
should be fixed?—-No; I would leave that to the
administrative authorities to fix.
15908. Would not the granting to provincial Govern-
ments of these powers lead to a multiplicity of loans
in the country, and probably add to the indebtedness
of the country ?—-I do not think so. It would not
add to the permanent indebtedness of the country
because a sinking fund might be formed, and gradually
the loan liquidated.
15909. Is not the present check beneficial from the
point of view that the provincial Governments are
stopped from borrowing immediately they think a
loan is necessary, and that they have to consider the
matter well before going to the Government of India
for sanction to a loan ?—I think, having regard to the
urgency of some matters, the Local Government ought
to have power to raise loans.
15910. In urgent cases, for instance such as famine
relief, is there unnecessary delay in getting the sanction
of the Government of India ?■—There is delay, and«I
want to prevent that.
15911. Would you like to give the Local Govern-
ments larger powers in the creation of new appoint-
ments ?—Yes.
15912. Do you know that the powers of the Govern-
ment of India are limited in that respect ?—Yes.
15913. And you would not give the Local Govern-
ments larger powers than the Government of India
have in matters of appointment ?—No.
15914. Would you give them similar powers ?—Yes,
I would leave improvements in Services and certain
other matters to the provincial Government instead of
allowing them to go up to the Secretary of State.
15915. Are officers of the Provincial Service-
Deputy Magistrates—also too frequently transferred ?
—Yes.
15916. There is a proposal to empower Com-
missioners of Divisions to transfer Deputy Magistrates
from one place to another witbin their own divisions ;
would that be likely to lead to more frequent transfers
of Deputy Magistrates ?—Not necessarily.
15917. Would it be beneficial for the administration
of divisions that Commissioners should have the power
of moving Deputy Magistrates from place to place
within their own divisions ?—It would be an improve-
ment on the present system, because the Commissioner
knows the needs of a division better than anyone
else.
15918. You propose to give District Boards some
powers of control over the smaller municipalities
within a district, on the ground that the smaller
municipalities have very limited funds and that the
District Boards might help them. Do you propose
that a part of the district funds should be diverted
from their legitimate purpose to the help of the muni-
cipalities?—No, I do not mean that ; what I mean is
that the smaller municipalities have limited means ;
they have no engineers, for instance, of their own, but
District Boards have engineers, and in cases of settling
questions of drainage, or anything of that kind, the
District Boards might help.
15919. Without charging any fees ?—-Yes.
15920. With regard to delegation, supposing some
powers have been vested by a Legislative Act in the
Local Government, and under a General Act of Dele-
gation the Local Government delegated those powers
to Commissioners and Collectors, without any special
amending Act, would that not be defeating the object
of the original Act vesting the power in a particular
authority ?—Practically it would.
15921. Supposing the Local Government has power
of sanctioning taxation in municipalities, and under a
general Act of Delegation empowered all Commis-
sioners and Collectors to sanction the imposition of
fresh taxation within municipalities, would not that be
defeating the object of the original Act ?—It would
be so.
15922. Would that be liked by the people ?—I am
not very certain as to what the popular feeling would
be, but I would be disinclined to do it.
15923. (.Sir Frederic Lely.) Has the action of the
Court of Wards proved to be very beneficial in that it
creates a link betweeil the Collector and some, at any
rate, of the landowners in his district ?—So far as it
goes, yes.
15924. If an estate in certain circumstances is not
under the Court of Wards, it goes to ruin ?—Yes.
15925. The Board of Revenue is practically the
Chief Revenue Court of Appeal at present ?—Yes.
15926. And parties have a right to appear before it
in person or by pleader ?—Yes.
15927. Is that a privilege which is greatly valued?
—Yes.
15928. If that privilege ceased to exist, would it
be popular among the people ?—It would not be
acceptable.
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :
Rai Tarini 15891. Should a provincial Government be allowed
Prasad to make its own budget as it likes without any
Bahadur. criticism ?—I think not.
30 Dec. 1907. 15892. Supposing the budget were fully discussed in
_L ' the provincial Legislature, would you modify your
opinion with regard to the criticisms of the Govern-
ment of India, and would you say under those circum-
stances it might no longer be necessary to refer it ?—
If the provincial Governments were given power to
discuss imperial budgets, then, of course, I would
certainly have no objection. But so far as minute
details are concerned, I adhere to my opinion that
they should be left to provincial Governments without
having to go up for the sanction of the Government of
India.
15893. (Hfr. Dutt.) I suppose all those matters
regarding the financial settlement are settled by
correspondence between the provincial Government
and the Imperial Government, and are not discussed
in the Legislative assembly ? —I think so.
15894. So that the Legislative Council has no
opportunity of knowing what is being done in these
matters until they have been decided ?—That is so.
15895. Is the Bengal budget discussed after it has
received the sanction of the Government of India ?—
Yes, always.
15896. Therefore if, in the course of the discussion,
any changes appear to be necessary, there is no
machinery for introducing those changes ? — None
whatever.
15897. So that practically the discussion is only
academic and is of no practical value ?—That is so.
15898. Would you like a scheme by which discus-
sion might take place in the Bengal Council before
the budget went up to the Government of India for
sanction, so that if the Lieutenant Governor thought
it desirable to make any changes in the budget after
discussion, he might be able to make them before sub-
mission to the Government of India ?—Yes.
15899. In speaking of the Bengal Government one
means only the Lieutenant-Governor ?—-Yes.
15900. And the items in the budget are practically
settled by the Lieutenant-Governor ?—Yes.
15901. You referred to certain matters in regard to
which the Local Government ought to have larger
powers, but sometimes are not changes in adminis-
trative systems brought about too frequently ?—
Sometimes they are, but there are sometimes urgent
reforms which must be dealt with.
15902. Has not every Lieutenant-Governor views
and ideas of his own differing from those of his
predecessor ?—Every Lieutenant-Governor no doubt
has some pronounced views different from those of
his predecessor.
15903. And to some extent there is a change in the
policy of a Government with every new Lieutenant-
Governor ?—Yes.
15904. Would there be more continuity of policy if
Lieutenant-Governors were assisted by an Executive
Council of two or more members ?—Yes.
15905. On the whole, would there be less chance of
sudden and needless changes if there was an Executive
Council to help the Head of the Government ?—Yes,
I think it would be better.
15906. With regard to borrowing powers, did you
mention a lakh of rupees as an approximate limit to
which Local Governments might go ?—No, I simply
gave that as illustrating the principle I put forward ;
I do not say that that should necessarily be the sum ;
it might be a smaller sum.
15907. Have you any idea what approximate sum
should be fixed?—-No; I would leave that to the
administrative authorities to fix.
15908. Would not the granting to provincial Govern-
ments of these powers lead to a multiplicity of loans
in the country, and probably add to the indebtedness
of the country ?—-I do not think so. It would not
add to the permanent indebtedness of the country
because a sinking fund might be formed, and gradually
the loan liquidated.
15909. Is not the present check beneficial from the
point of view that the provincial Governments are
stopped from borrowing immediately they think a
loan is necessary, and that they have to consider the
matter well before going to the Government of India
for sanction to a loan ?—I think, having regard to the
urgency of some matters, the Local Government ought
to have power to raise loans.
15910. In urgent cases, for instance such as famine
relief, is there unnecessary delay in getting the sanction
of the Government of India ?■—There is delay, and«I
want to prevent that.
15911. Would you like to give the Local Govern-
ments larger powers in the creation of new appoint-
ments ?—Yes.
15912. Do you know that the powers of the Govern-
ment of India are limited in that respect ?—Yes.
15913. And you would not give the Local Govern-
ments larger powers than the Government of India
have in matters of appointment ?—No.
15914. Would you give them similar powers ?—Yes,
I would leave improvements in Services and certain
other matters to the provincial Government instead of
allowing them to go up to the Secretary of State.
15915. Are officers of the Provincial Service-
Deputy Magistrates—also too frequently transferred ?
—Yes.
15916. There is a proposal to empower Com-
missioners of Divisions to transfer Deputy Magistrates
from one place to another witbin their own divisions ;
would that be likely to lead to more frequent transfers
of Deputy Magistrates ?—Not necessarily.
15917. Would it be beneficial for the administration
of divisions that Commissioners should have the power
of moving Deputy Magistrates from place to place
within their own divisions ?—It would be an improve-
ment on the present system, because the Commissioner
knows the needs of a division better than anyone
else.
15918. You propose to give District Boards some
powers of control over the smaller municipalities
within a district, on the ground that the smaller
municipalities have very limited funds and that the
District Boards might help them. Do you propose
that a part of the district funds should be diverted
from their legitimate purpose to the help of the muni-
cipalities?—No, I do not mean that ; what I mean is
that the smaller municipalities have limited means ;
they have no engineers, for instance, of their own, but
District Boards have engineers, and in cases of settling
questions of drainage, or anything of that kind, the
District Boards might help.
15919. Without charging any fees ?—-Yes.
15920. With regard to delegation, supposing some
powers have been vested by a Legislative Act in the
Local Government, and under a General Act of Dele-
gation the Local Government delegated those powers
to Commissioners and Collectors, without any special
amending Act, would that not be defeating the object
of the original Act vesting the power in a particular
authority ?—Practically it would.
15921. Supposing the Local Government has power
of sanctioning taxation in municipalities, and under a
general Act of Delegation empowered all Commis-
sioners and Collectors to sanction the imposition of
fresh taxation within municipalities, would not that be
defeating the object of the original Act ?—It would
be so.
15922. Would that be liked by the people ?—I am
not very certain as to what the popular feeling would
be, but I would be disinclined to do it.
15923. (.Sir Frederic Lely.) Has the action of the
Court of Wards proved to be very beneficial in that it
creates a link betweeil the Collector and some, at any
rate, of the landowners in his district ?—So far as it
goes, yes.
15924. If an estate in certain circumstances is not
under the Court of Wards, it goes to ruin ?—Yes.
15925. The Board of Revenue is practically the
Chief Revenue Court of Appeal at present ?—Yes.
15926. And parties have a right to appear before it
in person or by pleader ?—Yes.
15927. Is that a privilege which is greatly valued?
—Yes.
15928. If that privilege ceased to exist, would it
be popular among the people ?—It would not be
acceptable.