DOI Seite / Zitierlink:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0096
90
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE:
Jfr. G. W.
'Kilchler.
31 Deo., 1907.
of view, but there would be no harm, if one province,
for instance, in a matter of detail like that, did have
its own rules, which might differ from those of another
province. Any advice coming from the Government
of India would of course be listened to, though it
might not be finally accepted, simply, perhaps, because
there might be local conditions which militated against
it. Then there was a case of an officer who was
appointed Superintendent of the Reformatory School.
The standing orders require that, in the case of the
appointment of a European, certain particulars should
be furnished to the Government of India. In replying
to the request for information these particulars were
not furnished, and the Government of India wanted
information why an officer from the ordinary Pro-
vincial Service had not been appointed. The corres-
pondence to which this gave rise delayed the matter
for many months, and in consequence of this delay the
unfortunate individual concerned did not get any pay
for seven months. The Government of India might
have sufficient confidence in the Local Government to
allow them to pass orders in such a case. It did not
seem to be necessary that they should withdraw their
sanction and consequently withhold the pay of this
gentleman, who was doing the work, for a long period
pending the receipt of the necessary sanction.
16563. Would you regard the appointment of a
single individual, a European, as standing on exactly
the same lines with regard to the interference of the
Government of India, as the adjudication upon the
curricula or the method of inspection?—'Not on quite
the same lines. There must be standing orders with
regard to a case of this kind, but the only point is with
reference to the procedure and the unnecessary delay
caused by not placing sufficient confidence in the Local
Governments.
16564. Apart from such advice, which may run
counter to the views of the Local Government, do you
regard the appointment of the Director-General as
satisfactory ?—In many respects the Director-General’s
appointment is an extremely useful appointment. We
must have co-ordination in education throughout India,
and the Director-General would be able to give the
necessary advice to the Government of India with
regard to that point.
16565. Does the Director of Public Instruction
correspond with the other Education Departments in
the provincial Governments ?—Yes, he corresponds
with them unofficially, and there are also conferences
of directors, which are held periodically.
16566. Is there any stated time at which these con-
ferences are held?—Nothing has been laid down with
regard to having them at regular intervals.
16567. The first one which was held was held in
1901 ?—Yes.
16568. How many have been held since?—I think
there was one later than 1901.
16569. At what intervals would you suggest that
they should be held ?—Every three years at least, and
such conferences would largely take the place of the
Director-General, because from the work of these con-
ferences the Government of India would be able to
get the necessary information which they require.
16570. Would you say, if it was laid down that con-
ferences should be fixed at brief intervals, that the
Director-General might disappear ?—I would not like to
give an opinion upon that, because I am not acquainted
with the details of the Director-General’s work ; I am
only speaking on general principles, but it seems to me
that there might not be the same necessity for the
Director-General as there is at present.
16571. Perhaps someone in the position of a Sec-
retary to collate the work of the conference might be
a good substitute for the Director-General ?—Yes, that
was my idea.
16572. With regard to the delegation of powers by
the Local Government to the Director-General, Mr.
Earle and you agree that the Director-General ought
to be allowed to make appointments to the Subordinate
Service and to the Provincial Service ?—Yes, but I
understand Mr. Earle to mean that he ought to be
allowed greater powers, not only as to appointments up
to a maximum salary of Rs. 250, say, but also with
regard to the creation of fresh appointments subject to
a maximum limit of Rs. 5,000 a year.
16573. Would they be pensionable ?—Yes.
16574. I understand that in no single case during
the last five years has any appointment recommended
by him been refused by the Local Government?—
Yes.
16575. You say the Director-General would like to
be able to incur any additional expenditure up to
Rs. 10,000 a year. Is that very much on the same
lines as the power which a Commissioner has in Bengal
at present ?—Yes, it is pretty much on the same lines ;
of course the Director wants to have his power of
expenditure raised.
16576. Does he want to have a special sum ear-
marked to be at his disposal for any purpose ?—No, he
would have an allotment of a considerable sum, and
for each single project he would not be able to exceed
Rs. 10,000; but the total amount would be con-
siderably larger.
16577. There ought to be a delegation of powers to
inspectors and principals of colleges, provided that the
Collector of the district agreed with the proposal ?—
Yes.
16578. Whence is the expenditure upon education
in primary schools derived?—Partly from a direct
grant from provincial revenues, and partly from
certain revenues which are at the disposal of the
District Boards.
16579. One witness to-day told us that the District
Boards managed the primary schools, but subject to
certain general rules and regulations laid down by the
Government; is that so?—Yes, under certain rules
which restrict, or define, their control.
16580. Has the District Board any real power of
control or management ?•—The whole management of
primary education is very small indeed—really there is
none—and it merely consists in the distribution of
stipends to the gurus. The District Boards might
show more initiative with regard to primary education.
During the whole period in which they have been
charged with primary education they have shown no
initiative, and have made no serious proposals towards
the improvement of primary education.
16581. What sort of proposals could they make?—
For instance they have a certain number of schools
which are called model schools, but they never have
made the slightest attempt to improve them. It would
have a good effect on education generally if District
Boards would come forward and make their schools
really model schools.
16582. But could they improve the school premises?
—They could provide better school-houses to begin
with.
16583. Out of the funds provided by Government
or by increased taxation ?—It is quite possible they
would have to come up to Government for increased
funds, but that is where the initiative would come in.
Why do they not come up and say, “ We would like
to improve our schools, but we have not got the
money ? ”
16584. Suppose they came and said, “ We want better
school buildings, better school furniture, we want a
better class of instruction, and we want to raise the
pay of our teachers ” ; is that the sort of proposal
which Government would be prepared to consider ?—
Yes, those are the sort of proposals to which I refer.
16585. So far as you know would your department
be prepared to recommend that the increased expen-
diture involved in those proposals should be met from
provincial funds, or would you require the District
Board to provide its own funds ?—The department
would recommend whether the amount should be
drawn from provincial funds. The amount of money
at the disposal of District Boards is limited, but even
with the money which they have at their disposal, they
have not done what they might have done.
16586. How do the District Boards manage their
primary schools ?—They have no primary schools of
their own. There are what are called middle schools,
and they have some of those, under their direct
management. To others they give grants-in-aid.
16587. Do they appoint manners to those schools?
—No, they have to approve of the manager’s appoint-
ment. The local committee appoint him. They
send up names to the District Board, and the District
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE:
Jfr. G. W.
'Kilchler.
31 Deo., 1907.
of view, but there would be no harm, if one province,
for instance, in a matter of detail like that, did have
its own rules, which might differ from those of another
province. Any advice coming from the Government
of India would of course be listened to, though it
might not be finally accepted, simply, perhaps, because
there might be local conditions which militated against
it. Then there was a case of an officer who was
appointed Superintendent of the Reformatory School.
The standing orders require that, in the case of the
appointment of a European, certain particulars should
be furnished to the Government of India. In replying
to the request for information these particulars were
not furnished, and the Government of India wanted
information why an officer from the ordinary Pro-
vincial Service had not been appointed. The corres-
pondence to which this gave rise delayed the matter
for many months, and in consequence of this delay the
unfortunate individual concerned did not get any pay
for seven months. The Government of India might
have sufficient confidence in the Local Government to
allow them to pass orders in such a case. It did not
seem to be necessary that they should withdraw their
sanction and consequently withhold the pay of this
gentleman, who was doing the work, for a long period
pending the receipt of the necessary sanction.
16563. Would you regard the appointment of a
single individual, a European, as standing on exactly
the same lines with regard to the interference of the
Government of India, as the adjudication upon the
curricula or the method of inspection?—'Not on quite
the same lines. There must be standing orders with
regard to a case of this kind, but the only point is with
reference to the procedure and the unnecessary delay
caused by not placing sufficient confidence in the Local
Governments.
16564. Apart from such advice, which may run
counter to the views of the Local Government, do you
regard the appointment of the Director-General as
satisfactory ?—In many respects the Director-General’s
appointment is an extremely useful appointment. We
must have co-ordination in education throughout India,
and the Director-General would be able to give the
necessary advice to the Government of India with
regard to that point.
16565. Does the Director of Public Instruction
correspond with the other Education Departments in
the provincial Governments ?—Yes, he corresponds
with them unofficially, and there are also conferences
of directors, which are held periodically.
16566. Is there any stated time at which these con-
ferences are held?—Nothing has been laid down with
regard to having them at regular intervals.
16567. The first one which was held was held in
1901 ?—Yes.
16568. How many have been held since?—I think
there was one later than 1901.
16569. At what intervals would you suggest that
they should be held ?—Every three years at least, and
such conferences would largely take the place of the
Director-General, because from the work of these con-
ferences the Government of India would be able to
get the necessary information which they require.
16570. Would you say, if it was laid down that con-
ferences should be fixed at brief intervals, that the
Director-General might disappear ?—I would not like to
give an opinion upon that, because I am not acquainted
with the details of the Director-General’s work ; I am
only speaking on general principles, but it seems to me
that there might not be the same necessity for the
Director-General as there is at present.
16571. Perhaps someone in the position of a Sec-
retary to collate the work of the conference might be
a good substitute for the Director-General ?—Yes, that
was my idea.
16572. With regard to the delegation of powers by
the Local Government to the Director-General, Mr.
Earle and you agree that the Director-General ought
to be allowed to make appointments to the Subordinate
Service and to the Provincial Service ?—Yes, but I
understand Mr. Earle to mean that he ought to be
allowed greater powers, not only as to appointments up
to a maximum salary of Rs. 250, say, but also with
regard to the creation of fresh appointments subject to
a maximum limit of Rs. 5,000 a year.
16573. Would they be pensionable ?—Yes.
16574. I understand that in no single case during
the last five years has any appointment recommended
by him been refused by the Local Government?—
Yes.
16575. You say the Director-General would like to
be able to incur any additional expenditure up to
Rs. 10,000 a year. Is that very much on the same
lines as the power which a Commissioner has in Bengal
at present ?—Yes, it is pretty much on the same lines ;
of course the Director wants to have his power of
expenditure raised.
16576. Does he want to have a special sum ear-
marked to be at his disposal for any purpose ?—No, he
would have an allotment of a considerable sum, and
for each single project he would not be able to exceed
Rs. 10,000; but the total amount would be con-
siderably larger.
16577. There ought to be a delegation of powers to
inspectors and principals of colleges, provided that the
Collector of the district agreed with the proposal ?—
Yes.
16578. Whence is the expenditure upon education
in primary schools derived?—Partly from a direct
grant from provincial revenues, and partly from
certain revenues which are at the disposal of the
District Boards.
16579. One witness to-day told us that the District
Boards managed the primary schools, but subject to
certain general rules and regulations laid down by the
Government; is that so?—Yes, under certain rules
which restrict, or define, their control.
16580. Has the District Board any real power of
control or management ?•—The whole management of
primary education is very small indeed—really there is
none—and it merely consists in the distribution of
stipends to the gurus. The District Boards might
show more initiative with regard to primary education.
During the whole period in which they have been
charged with primary education they have shown no
initiative, and have made no serious proposals towards
the improvement of primary education.
16581. What sort of proposals could they make?—
For instance they have a certain number of schools
which are called model schools, but they never have
made the slightest attempt to improve them. It would
have a good effect on education generally if District
Boards would come forward and make their schools
really model schools.
16582. But could they improve the school premises?
—They could provide better school-houses to begin
with.
16583. Out of the funds provided by Government
or by increased taxation ?—It is quite possible they
would have to come up to Government for increased
funds, but that is where the initiative would come in.
Why do they not come up and say, “ We would like
to improve our schools, but we have not got the
money ? ”
16584. Suppose they came and said, “ We want better
school buildings, better school furniture, we want a
better class of instruction, and we want to raise the
pay of our teachers ” ; is that the sort of proposal
which Government would be prepared to consider ?—
Yes, those are the sort of proposals to which I refer.
16585. So far as you know would your department
be prepared to recommend that the increased expen-
diture involved in those proposals should be met from
provincial funds, or would you require the District
Board to provide its own funds ?—The department
would recommend whether the amount should be
drawn from provincial funds. The amount of money
at the disposal of District Boards is limited, but even
with the money which they have at their disposal, they
have not done what they might have done.
16586. How do the District Boards manage their
primary schools ?—They have no primary schools of
their own. There are what are called middle schools,
and they have some of those, under their direct
management. To others they give grants-in-aid.
16587. Do they appoint manners to those schools?
—No, they have to approve of the manager’s appoint-
ment. The local committee appoint him. They
send up names to the District Board, and the District