DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0097
ROYAL COMMISSION UPON DECENTRALIZATION.
91
Board approves. The District Board does not actually
add a member of its own to the Board of Manage-
ment.
16588. The Chairman of the Purnea municipality
told us that, while the cost of primary schools fell
entirely on the municipality, they had no control over
them—do you agree with that statement ?—I should
hardly be inclined to accept it. Municipalities have to
contribute a certain portion of their income to private
education, but it is simply a matter of giving stipends
to the gurus.
16589. Who appoints the gurus ?—They appoint
themselves. We have a number of schools which have
sprung up in one way or another ; the inspectors who
are paid by Government inspect those schools, and say
which gurus are deserving of stipends or not.
16590. Do the gurus draw a stipend from the
municipality on the certificate of the inspector ?—•
Yes.
16591. Who provides the books used by the scholars ?
—Ordinarily they provide their own books.
16592. Who provides the furniture in the schools ?—
Unless there is a special grant made, which is seldom
the case, the furniture is provided by the gurus them-
selves.
16593. Does the other expenditure, beyond the
stipend of the gurus, fall on the municipality ?—There
is none.
16594. Therefore the statement by the Chairman of
the Purnea municipality that the municipality pays
the cost of primary schools really only refers to the
stipends of the gurus ?—Yes. As far as primary
education is concerned, throughout the country the
only expense lies in the stipends of the gurus.
16595. Who pays the expenses of middle schools ?—
The Education Department. No expense falls on the
municipality with regard to middle schools.
16596. Therefore from a financial point of view
they can claim no control ?—Except that the munici-
palities may give grants to the middle schools. Some-
times a middle school gets a grant both from the
department and the municipality. The municipality
has no control over the management of a middle
school.
16597. In cases where municipalities give a grant
would it be advisable that they should have control ?—
There is little to control. If there was anything of
importance to control, I would be willing that the
municipalities should have a voice in the matter.
16598. Might you not give them some share in the
control and management?—Yes, if the grant were
applied to a legitimate purpose.
16599. But is it applied now to any illegitimate
purpose ?—I do not consider that merely giving a
stipend to the guru is any reason for giving control.
16600. Is that what the grant always goes to ?—Yes,
in primary schools. If municipalities were to give a
grant to the middle schools for some legitimate pur-
pose, then they might be given some share in the
control.
16601. Do they have a representative on the com-
mittee of management ?—Yes. If they liked they
could certainly have a representative on the com-
mittee.
16602. Would that be a good thing to do ?—Yes.
16603. What would the control of the committee of
management over a school amount to in point of fact ?
—It does not amount to very much.
16604. Ought it to amount to a good deal in a case
where a grant-in-aid is given ?—Yes, of course ; the
committee of management ought to have considerable
control.
16605. Would you go so far as to say that in most
municipalities of moderate size there are persons
capable of exercising an interest in the management of
schools ?—-That is the question. There is a committee
of management, but they do not take any interest in
the schools. 3
16606. If you give a person nothing to do, what can
he take any interest in ?—They have something to do
if they like to carry out the duties assigned to them-
on paper they have a good deal to do.
33263
16607. What is it they can do in practice ?—They
have control in appointing teachers, and to a certain
extent, in regulating the course of study ; in giving .
leave to the teachers and all matters of that kind—the '
ordinary matters connected with the administration of
schools.
16608. Has the committee a free "hand in the
appointment of teachers ?—Yes, subject of course to
the approval of the inspector of schools.
16609. What pay does the inspector of schools get?
—That varies. He may be an Indian, or he may be a
European.
16610. With some real knowledge, of course, of
education ?—He ought to have a real knowledge, and
it is assumed he has before he is appointed.
16611. Under whose care are the secondary schools ?
■—They are entirely under the department; some of
them receive grants-in-aid, and some are directly
managed by the department.
16612. Where do the funds of the secondary schools
come from ?—From provincial revenues.
16613. And towards their up-keep neither the Dis-
trict Boards nor municipalities contribute ?—No. They
may contribute in rare cases, but it is a very excep-
tional thing.
16614. Who makes the appointment to the Pro-
vincial and Subordinate Services ?—In the Subordinate
Service, below a salary of Rs. 200 a month, the
appointments are made by the Director of Public
Instruction ; after that they are made by the Local
Government.
16615. When Educational Officers are appointed
from England to this country, are they required to
know anything either of the Indian language, or Indian
history, or Indian social conditions ? — The only
requirement as regards language is that, within two
years, they are expected to pass an examination up to
the Higher Standard in the vernacular of the division
in which they are serving.
16616. Are they often moved from division to
division ?—Yes, too often.
16617. And, in consequence, they may be posted to
a division with the language of which they are not
acquainted ?—Yes, that is frequently the case.
16618. And being themselves inspectors of schools
they receive no instruction at all in the literature or
history of the country for which they are going to
provide education ?—Not necessarily.
16619. Do they often have such knowledge when
they come out ?—If they take an interest in the sub-
ject, in a way they do.
16620. But how can they ? They do not know
where they are going to be appointed to. They are
nominated on a vacancy occurring and they come out
in the next mail ?—Yes.
16621. What is the nature of their appointments?—
That may vary. They may be appointed as professors
of a college or inspectors of schools.
16622. (Mr. Meyer). Do you say that all the primary
schools in the management of which the District
Boards and municipalities are concerned are under the
charge of gurus ?—Yes. All the primary schools.
16623. Does no municipality maintain a school of
its own ?—No.
16624. Are there no mission or other primary
schools maintained by private resources ?—Yes, there
are a few.
16625. Would those be aided by the municipality or
the District Board ?—They would be aided if necessary.
16626. Therefore assistance to primary education is
confined to those two classes of schools ?—Yes.
16627. Are local bodies bound, in regard to the ver-
nacular schools at any rate, by the recommendations of
the officers of the Education Department ? Can they
aid a vernacular school unless the officer of the Educa-
tion Department says the guru is a satisfactory person ?
—They could act against the opinion of the inspector ;
but if they did, the matter could be referred to the
Commissioner of the Division.
16628. Might not a municipality have some little
power in the matter of selecting schools to which it
gives aid ?—Of course, if you allowed them to do that
it would be on the advice of some Educational Officer.
M 2
91
Board approves. The District Board does not actually
add a member of its own to the Board of Manage-
ment.
16588. The Chairman of the Purnea municipality
told us that, while the cost of primary schools fell
entirely on the municipality, they had no control over
them—do you agree with that statement ?—I should
hardly be inclined to accept it. Municipalities have to
contribute a certain portion of their income to private
education, but it is simply a matter of giving stipends
to the gurus.
16589. Who appoints the gurus ?—They appoint
themselves. We have a number of schools which have
sprung up in one way or another ; the inspectors who
are paid by Government inspect those schools, and say
which gurus are deserving of stipends or not.
16590. Do the gurus draw a stipend from the
municipality on the certificate of the inspector ?—•
Yes.
16591. Who provides the books used by the scholars ?
—Ordinarily they provide their own books.
16592. Who provides the furniture in the schools ?—
Unless there is a special grant made, which is seldom
the case, the furniture is provided by the gurus them-
selves.
16593. Does the other expenditure, beyond the
stipend of the gurus, fall on the municipality ?—There
is none.
16594. Therefore the statement by the Chairman of
the Purnea municipality that the municipality pays
the cost of primary schools really only refers to the
stipends of the gurus ?—Yes. As far as primary
education is concerned, throughout the country the
only expense lies in the stipends of the gurus.
16595. Who pays the expenses of middle schools ?—
The Education Department. No expense falls on the
municipality with regard to middle schools.
16596. Therefore from a financial point of view
they can claim no control ?—Except that the munici-
palities may give grants to the middle schools. Some-
times a middle school gets a grant both from the
department and the municipality. The municipality
has no control over the management of a middle
school.
16597. In cases where municipalities give a grant
would it be advisable that they should have control ?—
There is little to control. If there was anything of
importance to control, I would be willing that the
municipalities should have a voice in the matter.
16598. Might you not give them some share in the
control and management?—Yes, if the grant were
applied to a legitimate purpose.
16599. But is it applied now to any illegitimate
purpose ?—I do not consider that merely giving a
stipend to the guru is any reason for giving control.
16600. Is that what the grant always goes to ?—Yes,
in primary schools. If municipalities were to give a
grant to the middle schools for some legitimate pur-
pose, then they might be given some share in the
control.
16601. Do they have a representative on the com-
mittee of management ?—Yes. If they liked they
could certainly have a representative on the com-
mittee.
16602. Would that be a good thing to do ?—Yes.
16603. What would the control of the committee of
management over a school amount to in point of fact ?
—It does not amount to very much.
16604. Ought it to amount to a good deal in a case
where a grant-in-aid is given ?—Yes, of course ; the
committee of management ought to have considerable
control.
16605. Would you go so far as to say that in most
municipalities of moderate size there are persons
capable of exercising an interest in the management of
schools ?—-That is the question. There is a committee
of management, but they do not take any interest in
the schools. 3
16606. If you give a person nothing to do, what can
he take any interest in ?—They have something to do
if they like to carry out the duties assigned to them-
on paper they have a good deal to do.
33263
16607. What is it they can do in practice ?—They
have control in appointing teachers, and to a certain
extent, in regulating the course of study ; in giving .
leave to the teachers and all matters of that kind—the '
ordinary matters connected with the administration of
schools.
16608. Has the committee a free "hand in the
appointment of teachers ?—Yes, subject of course to
the approval of the inspector of schools.
16609. What pay does the inspector of schools get?
—That varies. He may be an Indian, or he may be a
European.
16610. With some real knowledge, of course, of
education ?—He ought to have a real knowledge, and
it is assumed he has before he is appointed.
16611. Under whose care are the secondary schools ?
■—They are entirely under the department; some of
them receive grants-in-aid, and some are directly
managed by the department.
16612. Where do the funds of the secondary schools
come from ?—From provincial revenues.
16613. And towards their up-keep neither the Dis-
trict Boards nor municipalities contribute ?—No. They
may contribute in rare cases, but it is a very excep-
tional thing.
16614. Who makes the appointment to the Pro-
vincial and Subordinate Services ?—In the Subordinate
Service, below a salary of Rs. 200 a month, the
appointments are made by the Director of Public
Instruction ; after that they are made by the Local
Government.
16615. When Educational Officers are appointed
from England to this country, are they required to
know anything either of the Indian language, or Indian
history, or Indian social conditions ? — The only
requirement as regards language is that, within two
years, they are expected to pass an examination up to
the Higher Standard in the vernacular of the division
in which they are serving.
16616. Are they often moved from division to
division ?—Yes, too often.
16617. And, in consequence, they may be posted to
a division with the language of which they are not
acquainted ?—Yes, that is frequently the case.
16618. And being themselves inspectors of schools
they receive no instruction at all in the literature or
history of the country for which they are going to
provide education ?—Not necessarily.
16619. Do they often have such knowledge when
they come out ?—If they take an interest in the sub-
ject, in a way they do.
16620. But how can they ? They do not know
where they are going to be appointed to. They are
nominated on a vacancy occurring and they come out
in the next mail ?—Yes.
16621. What is the nature of their appointments?—
That may vary. They may be appointed as professors
of a college or inspectors of schools.
16622. (Mr. Meyer). Do you say that all the primary
schools in the management of which the District
Boards and municipalities are concerned are under the
charge of gurus ?—Yes. All the primary schools.
16623. Does no municipality maintain a school of
its own ?—No.
16624. Are there no mission or other primary
schools maintained by private resources ?—Yes, there
are a few.
16625. Would those be aided by the municipality or
the District Board ?—They would be aided if necessary.
16626. Therefore assistance to primary education is
confined to those two classes of schools ?—Yes.
16627. Are local bodies bound, in regard to the ver-
nacular schools at any rate, by the recommendations of
the officers of the Education Department ? Can they
aid a vernacular school unless the officer of the Educa-
tion Department says the guru is a satisfactory person ?
—They could act against the opinion of the inspector ;
but if they did, the matter could be referred to the
Commissioner of the Division.
16628. Might not a municipality have some little
power in the matter of selecting schools to which it
gives aid ?—Of course, if you allowed them to do that
it would be on the advice of some Educational Officer.
M 2