DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0109
ROYAL COMMISSION UPON DECENTRALIZATION.
103
Mr. A. L. McIntire was called and examined.
16949. {Chairman.') You are the Conservator of
Forests in Bengal ?—Yes, my service dates since 1884.
16950. What is the organisation of your depart-
ment ?—The gazetted staff of the Bengal Forest Circle
at present comprises, exclusive of a Conservator, 11
Imperial Service, and 10 Provincial Service appoint-
ments. Of these officers usually 12, including the
Andamans divisional forest officer, who is supplied
from Bengal, hold charge of forest divisions, i.e.,
forest charges which include all the Government
forests in a sub-division of a district or in a district,
or in a group of districts. The rest of the officers who
are not on leave, or on deputation to appointments on
the list, are usually employed as attached or range
officers, ranges being units into which forest divisions
are subdivided, which are mostly placed under the
charge of subordinates. My own duties as Conservator
are those of a consulting officer in forest matters to
the Local Government ; an inspecting officer of the
divisions included in the circle and of their offices ; an
auidit officer of divisional accounts with powers of
sanction of revenue and expenditure transactions which
are beyond the powers of Divisional Officers.
I have powers to appoint, promote and post to
forest divisions subordinates in superior service and
clerks, and I have limited powers of passing first orders
in cases against Upper Subordinates and clerks and of
passing orders on appeal against punishments which
divisional forest officers are competent to award.
In the matter of working-plans and preliminary
reports on their preparation which are submitted
direct by me to the Inspector-General of Forests, I am
in large measure responsible for the work of the com-
pilers of these plans. The Inspector-General is under
no obligation to forward preliminary reports to the
Local Government unless he takes strong exception to
any of their proposals. But he is bound to submit
complete working-plans to the Local Governments
concerned with his recommendations. Thus in the
matter of preparing working-plans I am, for all practi-
cal purposes, directly subordinate to the Inspector-
General. In practice I have only a right of appeal
against the Inspector-General’s orders on working-
plans to the Local Government, which, if it supports
me, must refer the matters in dispute to the Govern-
ment of India. The wide powers formerly exercised
by the Inspector-General in this respect have lately
been enhanced by the Government of India’s rules for
the employment of officers of the Imperial Research
Institute at Dehra Dun. Under these rules, the
Inspector-General is at liberty to send to any forest
the Imperial Superintendent of Working-Plans, whose
duties are largely those of a professor, and to supply
him with local information which he is at liberty to
accept to the ignoring of the views of the Conservator
and divisional officer concerned.
Local Governments should exercise full powers
under the Forest Act, except that section 26 of
that Act, which makes the previous sanction of the
Governor - General in Council necessary for the
issue of a notification disforesting any reserved
forest, should be retained. The previous sanction
of the Governor - General in Council required
under sections 39 and 77 should be dispensed with.
The intervention of the Inspector-General of Forests
in connection with working-plans should be limited
to advising Local Governments. Articles 85 and 90
of the Forest Department Code should be changed so
as to provide for the direct submission of preliminary
reports on working-plans and of complete working-
plans by the Conservator to his Local Government,
which would forward them to the Inspector-General
for favour of his opinion. The direct issue of instruc-
tions by the Inspector-General to Conservators under
article 86 of the Forest Department Code should be
stopped. Local Governments would thus obtain the
benefit of the general knowledge and experience of the
Inspector-General and of information brought to light
through the work of the Research Institute, while
Conservators would no longer have to serve two
masters, and should have a better chance of securing
due consideration of local conditions than they at
present possess.
Sufficient powers have been delegated to Conser-
vators under financial rules, and additional delegations
which might be considered are of trifling importance.
Greater powers should, however, be delegated to Con-
servators in respect of sanctioning deviations from
working-plans.
In forest matters the influence of the Commissioner
must largely depend on his personality. As many
divisions contain little or no forest, some Commis-
sioners cannot possess much knowledge of, or interest
in, forest questions. In divisions in which forest
interests are relatively important, it is desirable that
the influence of the Commissioner in forest matters
should be strengthened. It is not clear to me how
this could be done under the present organization of
the department, except in revenue divisions where
forests are of sufficient importance and well enough
distributed to warrant the employment of sub-circle
officers, who would exercise most of the powers of a
Conservator and would be subordinate to the Com-
missioner in much the same way as divisional forest
officers are subordinate to District Officers.
Executive Forest Officers, generally, have sufficient
opportunities for personal contact with the people,
and in most cases pick up sufficient acquaintance with
the vernaculars to be able to communicate direct with
most of these people. The number of different ver-
naculars in use in the forest regions of their province
is so great that only a first-rate linguist, who could
give up most of his time to their study, would arrive
at a working knowledge of all the languages.
Transfers of Forest Officers in Bengal have of late
years been over frequent. Where frequent changes
have been necessary, their necessity has been mainly
due to the depletion of the staff of Imperial Service
Officers through their deputation to fill appointments
on the India list.
16951. Previous to the submission of working plans
to the Inspection-General is the Commissioner con-
sulted ?—We are not bound to consult the Commis-
sioner, but if there is any point which particularly
concerns him, he is consulted.
16952. Is the method of sending your working plans
to the Inspector-General a good one ?—I do not think
it is a good one, because it practically forces the
Inspector-General to exercise administrative power ;
he practically directs the preparation of working-plans.
16953. What better method could you suggest?—
The Conservator should submit plans direct to the
Local Government, which should merely ask the
Inspector-General for his advice.
16954. Would not that cause greater delay?—
Hardly any, I think.
16955. Does the Inspector-General interfere, in the
matter of working-plans, with your administrative
powers ?—He does in a way. He brings pressure to
bear upon me to prepare working-plans exactly as he
wants them to be prepared ; that is to say, to prepare
them according to a general scheme. This has always
been done, and to some extent it has had good results,
but as we get to know more about things in the pro-
vinces and the working gets more detailed, it is a
hindrance to effective working.
16956. What province were you in before you came
to Bengal ?—I was in the Punjab nearly all my
service.
16957. Was the method of working in the Punjab
practically identical with that in Bengal ?—The general
lines were much the same, but the details were very
different.
16958. In consequence of having to make reference
to the Inspector-General, does he perhaps force upon
you uniform methods, when it might be more profit-
able to have a divergence of method ?—It tends that
way.
16959. If you worked in the way you suggest
through the Local Government instead of direct
through the Inspector-General, would it make any
difference?—I think it would make a great deal of
difference. Knowing that the papers would go before
the Inspector-General would, to a certain extent, make
us more careful than we otherwise should be. But
the Inspector-General should confine himself to general
questions on which he might give advice to the
Government.
Mr. A. L.
McIntire.
2 Jan., 1908.
103
Mr. A. L. McIntire was called and examined.
16949. {Chairman.') You are the Conservator of
Forests in Bengal ?—Yes, my service dates since 1884.
16950. What is the organisation of your depart-
ment ?—The gazetted staff of the Bengal Forest Circle
at present comprises, exclusive of a Conservator, 11
Imperial Service, and 10 Provincial Service appoint-
ments. Of these officers usually 12, including the
Andamans divisional forest officer, who is supplied
from Bengal, hold charge of forest divisions, i.e.,
forest charges which include all the Government
forests in a sub-division of a district or in a district,
or in a group of districts. The rest of the officers who
are not on leave, or on deputation to appointments on
the list, are usually employed as attached or range
officers, ranges being units into which forest divisions
are subdivided, which are mostly placed under the
charge of subordinates. My own duties as Conservator
are those of a consulting officer in forest matters to
the Local Government ; an inspecting officer of the
divisions included in the circle and of their offices ; an
auidit officer of divisional accounts with powers of
sanction of revenue and expenditure transactions which
are beyond the powers of Divisional Officers.
I have powers to appoint, promote and post to
forest divisions subordinates in superior service and
clerks, and I have limited powers of passing first orders
in cases against Upper Subordinates and clerks and of
passing orders on appeal against punishments which
divisional forest officers are competent to award.
In the matter of working-plans and preliminary
reports on their preparation which are submitted
direct by me to the Inspector-General of Forests, I am
in large measure responsible for the work of the com-
pilers of these plans. The Inspector-General is under
no obligation to forward preliminary reports to the
Local Government unless he takes strong exception to
any of their proposals. But he is bound to submit
complete working-plans to the Local Governments
concerned with his recommendations. Thus in the
matter of preparing working-plans I am, for all practi-
cal purposes, directly subordinate to the Inspector-
General. In practice I have only a right of appeal
against the Inspector-General’s orders on working-
plans to the Local Government, which, if it supports
me, must refer the matters in dispute to the Govern-
ment of India. The wide powers formerly exercised
by the Inspector-General in this respect have lately
been enhanced by the Government of India’s rules for
the employment of officers of the Imperial Research
Institute at Dehra Dun. Under these rules, the
Inspector-General is at liberty to send to any forest
the Imperial Superintendent of Working-Plans, whose
duties are largely those of a professor, and to supply
him with local information which he is at liberty to
accept to the ignoring of the views of the Conservator
and divisional officer concerned.
Local Governments should exercise full powers
under the Forest Act, except that section 26 of
that Act, which makes the previous sanction of the
Governor - General in Council necessary for the
issue of a notification disforesting any reserved
forest, should be retained. The previous sanction
of the Governor - General in Council required
under sections 39 and 77 should be dispensed with.
The intervention of the Inspector-General of Forests
in connection with working-plans should be limited
to advising Local Governments. Articles 85 and 90
of the Forest Department Code should be changed so
as to provide for the direct submission of preliminary
reports on working-plans and of complete working-
plans by the Conservator to his Local Government,
which would forward them to the Inspector-General
for favour of his opinion. The direct issue of instruc-
tions by the Inspector-General to Conservators under
article 86 of the Forest Department Code should be
stopped. Local Governments would thus obtain the
benefit of the general knowledge and experience of the
Inspector-General and of information brought to light
through the work of the Research Institute, while
Conservators would no longer have to serve two
masters, and should have a better chance of securing
due consideration of local conditions than they at
present possess.
Sufficient powers have been delegated to Conser-
vators under financial rules, and additional delegations
which might be considered are of trifling importance.
Greater powers should, however, be delegated to Con-
servators in respect of sanctioning deviations from
working-plans.
In forest matters the influence of the Commissioner
must largely depend on his personality. As many
divisions contain little or no forest, some Commis-
sioners cannot possess much knowledge of, or interest
in, forest questions. In divisions in which forest
interests are relatively important, it is desirable that
the influence of the Commissioner in forest matters
should be strengthened. It is not clear to me how
this could be done under the present organization of
the department, except in revenue divisions where
forests are of sufficient importance and well enough
distributed to warrant the employment of sub-circle
officers, who would exercise most of the powers of a
Conservator and would be subordinate to the Com-
missioner in much the same way as divisional forest
officers are subordinate to District Officers.
Executive Forest Officers, generally, have sufficient
opportunities for personal contact with the people,
and in most cases pick up sufficient acquaintance with
the vernaculars to be able to communicate direct with
most of these people. The number of different ver-
naculars in use in the forest regions of their province
is so great that only a first-rate linguist, who could
give up most of his time to their study, would arrive
at a working knowledge of all the languages.
Transfers of Forest Officers in Bengal have of late
years been over frequent. Where frequent changes
have been necessary, their necessity has been mainly
due to the depletion of the staff of Imperial Service
Officers through their deputation to fill appointments
on the India list.
16951. Previous to the submission of working plans
to the Inspection-General is the Commissioner con-
sulted ?—We are not bound to consult the Commis-
sioner, but if there is any point which particularly
concerns him, he is consulted.
16952. Is the method of sending your working plans
to the Inspector-General a good one ?—I do not think
it is a good one, because it practically forces the
Inspector-General to exercise administrative power ;
he practically directs the preparation of working-plans.
16953. What better method could you suggest?—
The Conservator should submit plans direct to the
Local Government, which should merely ask the
Inspector-General for his advice.
16954. Would not that cause greater delay?—
Hardly any, I think.
16955. Does the Inspector-General interfere, in the
matter of working-plans, with your administrative
powers ?—He does in a way. He brings pressure to
bear upon me to prepare working-plans exactly as he
wants them to be prepared ; that is to say, to prepare
them according to a general scheme. This has always
been done, and to some extent it has had good results,
but as we get to know more about things in the pro-
vinces and the working gets more detailed, it is a
hindrance to effective working.
16956. What province were you in before you came
to Bengal ?—I was in the Punjab nearly all my
service.
16957. Was the method of working in the Punjab
practically identical with that in Bengal ?—The general
lines were much the same, but the details were very
different.
16958. In consequence of having to make reference
to the Inspector-General, does he perhaps force upon
you uniform methods, when it might be more profit-
able to have a divergence of method ?—It tends that
way.
16959. If you worked in the way you suggest
through the Local Government instead of direct
through the Inspector-General, would it make any
difference?—I think it would make a great deal of
difference. Knowing that the papers would go before
the Inspector-General would, to a certain extent, make
us more careful than we otherwise should be. But
the Inspector-General should confine himself to general
questions on which he might give advice to the
Government.
Mr. A. L.
McIntire.
2 Jan., 1908.