DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0108
Rai Sitanath
Roy
Bahadur.
2 Jan., 1908,
102 MINUTES OF evidence:
them do not, but there are several who do live on their
estates. Of course we go now and then to our country
houses, and then we are accessible to our tenants.
16915. How often do you go to see your tenants
upon your estates?—I do not go simply for the
purpose of seeing my tenants—I go four or five times
a year for my own purposes.
16916. Have your tenants sufficient opportunities of
access to you during those visits ?—Native gentlemen
are always open to access by their tenants.
16917. How long do you stay on these occasions ?—■
Sometimes for a fortn^ht, sometimes for a month. I
spend about three months in the year there.
16918. You say that the District Board work should
be taken away from Collectors, would you also be in
favour of magisterial work being taken away from
Collectors ?—Yes.
16919. Would you reduce the Collector to a mere
Collector of revenue?—1 would not go so far as that.
16920. Is it not important that a Collector should
be looked upon as the representative of Government
in his district ?—Certainly, but I do not think he
should have any judicial power.
16921. You say that he should not be Chairman of
the District Board ? Does that mean that you desire
that he should have no connection with education,
roads, and sanitation in his district ?—Not actually, if
any other man is entrusted with the position of official
Chairman, the Collector of the district might have
some control over him.
16922. But would the Collector take as much
interest in local matters if he merely came from out-
side to exercise a check, as if he sat on the Board
and discussed questions first hand ?—The complaint is
now that a Magistrate is over-worked.
16923. But, supposing he could find the time, is it
not of importance that he should meet the best men of
the district, on the District Board, and talk matters
over with them ?—I think the elected and nominated
members do not have freedom of action on those
occasions.
16924. Are they afraid of the Collector ?—Certainly.
16925. Do you mean that men like yourself are
afraid ?—Yes.
16926. Would you be afraid to speak your mind if
the Collector was presiding at a District Board meet-
ing ?—To some extent, yes.
16927. (ATr. Hiehens.) Are you a member of the
General Committee of the Calcutta Corporation?—■
No.
16928. How is that Committee appointed ?—It is
appointed partly by election and partly by nomination.
16929. You suggest that it has usurped certain
functions which should properly belong to the Cor-
poration ? Have you ever brought the matter to the
notice of the Corporation ?—It has been several times
discussed at meetings, but the Chairman was of a
different opinion.
16930. We were told by the last witness that he did
not think the Collector in any way dominated over his
municipality ; was that an exceptional case ?—I have no
personal knowledge of the work of a municipality and
what I have said is from hearsay. I think the public
opinion is that there is a tendency to interfere with
municipal work.
16931. (Mr. Dutt.) Supposing the District Magis-
trate still remained Chairman of the District Board
and the actual work was distributed amongst sub-
committees, each sub-committee taking charge of one
department and the District Magistrate retaining super-
vision of the whole, would that be any improvement
on the present state of things ?—But everything has
to be brought up before the meetings of the District
Board and discussed ultimately for final disposal; so
that the Magistrate still would have the power to
dominate over them.
16932. But would it not be an improvement on the
present state of things ?—Not necessarily.
16933. Is not the Road Cess now spent in the
district where it is levied ?—But the district does not
get the benefit of it, and that is a misfortune.
16934. Is not the whole of the Road Cess, minus a
part spent on establishment, spent within the District ?
—But how it is spent, I do not know.
16935. Are you a member of the District ?—No,
but I know that the people do not see the results. That
is my complaint. We pay the tax, but we do not enjoy
the fruits.
16936. In a sub ■ division are there no agencies
between the Sub-Divisional Officer and the people
except the police ?—I wish there were.
16937. Your complaint is that the people are not
sufficiently in touch with these Sub-Divisional Officers.
Would it be an improvement if smaller areas were
created and a Revenue Officer, with some judicial
powers, was placed in charge of each of these smaller
areas ?—I would not like to have the number of
officers multiplied ; I would like to see the powers
given to the communities and to presidents of pan-
chayats. They would not abuse these powers and the
people would like it. I think village panchayats
should be revived.
16938. Do you propose that power in a village
should be given to one man as the head of the
panchayat, or to a number of persons forming a
panchayat ?—Powers might be given to the president
of the panchayat, or it might be given collectively.
16939. Would you also give them some small
judicial powers ?—Certainly. In regard to small civil
and criminal cases, it would be a blessing. They could
act as peacemakers between the parties, and settle cases
which otherwise would have to come before the
Magistrate.
16940. Would you also give them power of managing
village schools and of keeping the villages in a proper
sanitary condition ?'—Yes ; the more powers given to
village communities, the better, because they are in
direct touch with the people, and they know the con-
ditions and wants of the place.
16941. In that way would the villagers also be
brought into closer touch with Sub-Divisional Officers
and others?—Not necessarily.
16942. Is your suggestion only made in order to
give them some power to deal with their own affairs ?
—Yes.
16943. (Sir Frederic Lely.) As regards the pride of
office which you allege, has the Indian Officer become
worse in that respect of late years ?—I cannot say that
they are worse in that respect.
16914. Have the Europeans got worse ?—All I can
say is that they are not in touch with the people ; they
are not accessible, but I do not know whether they are
good, bad, or indifferent.
16945. Can you compare them as they are now with
what they were formerly ?—It is the general belief
that formerly they were more accessible than they are
now. When there were no railways, or steamer com-
munications, they used to live in isolated villages and
could not help mixing freely with the people, and they
did so with the view of killing time. But now
Calcutta and other places being so accessible to them,,
and there being such a large European colony, they do
not mix so much with the people.
16946. Have you observed the same sort of change
in the Indian officer that you have observed in the
European officer ?—No, I do not find any change in
Indian officers.
16947. Is it a fact that the District Officer treats all
men alike and that he does not recognize distinctions
of rank ?—He certainly does.
16948. You say that the people should be brought
in to help in the administration of affairs, but that
you cannot formulate any scheme by which that can be
carried out. Can you suggest any one who can formu-
late a scheme for that purpose ?—I am afraid it must
be left to the members of the Royal Commission to
formulate it and not an humble individual like myself.
(77ie witness withdrew.)
Roy
Bahadur.
2 Jan., 1908,
102 MINUTES OF evidence:
them do not, but there are several who do live on their
estates. Of course we go now and then to our country
houses, and then we are accessible to our tenants.
16915. How often do you go to see your tenants
upon your estates?—I do not go simply for the
purpose of seeing my tenants—I go four or five times
a year for my own purposes.
16916. Have your tenants sufficient opportunities of
access to you during those visits ?—Native gentlemen
are always open to access by their tenants.
16917. How long do you stay on these occasions ?—■
Sometimes for a fortn^ht, sometimes for a month. I
spend about three months in the year there.
16918. You say that the District Board work should
be taken away from Collectors, would you also be in
favour of magisterial work being taken away from
Collectors ?—Yes.
16919. Would you reduce the Collector to a mere
Collector of revenue?—1 would not go so far as that.
16920. Is it not important that a Collector should
be looked upon as the representative of Government
in his district ?—Certainly, but I do not think he
should have any judicial power.
16921. You say that he should not be Chairman of
the District Board ? Does that mean that you desire
that he should have no connection with education,
roads, and sanitation in his district ?—Not actually, if
any other man is entrusted with the position of official
Chairman, the Collector of the district might have
some control over him.
16922. But would the Collector take as much
interest in local matters if he merely came from out-
side to exercise a check, as if he sat on the Board
and discussed questions first hand ?—The complaint is
now that a Magistrate is over-worked.
16923. But, supposing he could find the time, is it
not of importance that he should meet the best men of
the district, on the District Board, and talk matters
over with them ?—I think the elected and nominated
members do not have freedom of action on those
occasions.
16924. Are they afraid of the Collector ?—Certainly.
16925. Do you mean that men like yourself are
afraid ?—Yes.
16926. Would you be afraid to speak your mind if
the Collector was presiding at a District Board meet-
ing ?—To some extent, yes.
16927. (ATr. Hiehens.) Are you a member of the
General Committee of the Calcutta Corporation?—■
No.
16928. How is that Committee appointed ?—It is
appointed partly by election and partly by nomination.
16929. You suggest that it has usurped certain
functions which should properly belong to the Cor-
poration ? Have you ever brought the matter to the
notice of the Corporation ?—It has been several times
discussed at meetings, but the Chairman was of a
different opinion.
16930. We were told by the last witness that he did
not think the Collector in any way dominated over his
municipality ; was that an exceptional case ?—I have no
personal knowledge of the work of a municipality and
what I have said is from hearsay. I think the public
opinion is that there is a tendency to interfere with
municipal work.
16931. (Mr. Dutt.) Supposing the District Magis-
trate still remained Chairman of the District Board
and the actual work was distributed amongst sub-
committees, each sub-committee taking charge of one
department and the District Magistrate retaining super-
vision of the whole, would that be any improvement
on the present state of things ?—But everything has
to be brought up before the meetings of the District
Board and discussed ultimately for final disposal; so
that the Magistrate still would have the power to
dominate over them.
16932. But would it not be an improvement on the
present state of things ?—Not necessarily.
16933. Is not the Road Cess now spent in the
district where it is levied ?—But the district does not
get the benefit of it, and that is a misfortune.
16934. Is not the whole of the Road Cess, minus a
part spent on establishment, spent within the District ?
—But how it is spent, I do not know.
16935. Are you a member of the District ?—No,
but I know that the people do not see the results. That
is my complaint. We pay the tax, but we do not enjoy
the fruits.
16936. In a sub ■ division are there no agencies
between the Sub-Divisional Officer and the people
except the police ?—I wish there were.
16937. Your complaint is that the people are not
sufficiently in touch with these Sub-Divisional Officers.
Would it be an improvement if smaller areas were
created and a Revenue Officer, with some judicial
powers, was placed in charge of each of these smaller
areas ?—I would not like to have the number of
officers multiplied ; I would like to see the powers
given to the communities and to presidents of pan-
chayats. They would not abuse these powers and the
people would like it. I think village panchayats
should be revived.
16938. Do you propose that power in a village
should be given to one man as the head of the
panchayat, or to a number of persons forming a
panchayat ?—Powers might be given to the president
of the panchayat, or it might be given collectively.
16939. Would you also give them some small
judicial powers ?—Certainly. In regard to small civil
and criminal cases, it would be a blessing. They could
act as peacemakers between the parties, and settle cases
which otherwise would have to come before the
Magistrate.
16940. Would you also give them power of managing
village schools and of keeping the villages in a proper
sanitary condition ?'—Yes ; the more powers given to
village communities, the better, because they are in
direct touch with the people, and they know the con-
ditions and wants of the place.
16941. In that way would the villagers also be
brought into closer touch with Sub-Divisional Officers
and others?—Not necessarily.
16942. Is your suggestion only made in order to
give them some power to deal with their own affairs ?
—Yes.
16943. (Sir Frederic Lely.) As regards the pride of
office which you allege, has the Indian Officer become
worse in that respect of late years ?—I cannot say that
they are worse in that respect.
16914. Have the Europeans got worse ?—All I can
say is that they are not in touch with the people ; they
are not accessible, but I do not know whether they are
good, bad, or indifferent.
16945. Can you compare them as they are now with
what they were formerly ?—It is the general belief
that formerly they were more accessible than they are
now. When there were no railways, or steamer com-
munications, they used to live in isolated villages and
could not help mixing freely with the people, and they
did so with the view of killing time. But now
Calcutta and other places being so accessible to them,,
and there being such a large European colony, they do
not mix so much with the people.
16946. Have you observed the same sort of change
in the Indian officer that you have observed in the
European officer ?—No, I do not find any change in
Indian officers.
16947. Is it a fact that the District Officer treats all
men alike and that he does not recognize distinctions
of rank ?—He certainly does.
16948. You say that the people should be brought
in to help in the administration of affairs, but that
you cannot formulate any scheme by which that can be
carried out. Can you suggest any one who can formu-
late a scheme for that purpose ?—I am afraid it must
be left to the members of the Royal Commission to
formulate it and not an humble individual like myself.
(77ie witness withdrew.)