DOI Seite / Zitierlink:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0112
106
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE!
Mr. A.
Knyvett.
2 Jan.) 1908.
Mr. A. Knyvett was called and examined.
17025. (Chairman.) You are the Inspector-General
of Police in Bengal ?—Yes, under me there are Deputy
Inpectors-General, District Superintendents, then in-
spectors, and sub-inspectors ; there is also a new grade
of deputy superintendents, which has just been intro-
duced, belonging to the Provincial Service.
17026. We were told in Burma that there were some
difficulties with the Commissioner as regards the post-
ing of inspectors of police—have you found the same
difficulty ?—No, not during the period of my tenure.
17027. Who posts the inspectors ?—It is done by
the Inspector-General of Police in consultation with
the local authorities and in agreement with the Dis-
trict Magistrate.
17028. Mr. Daly told us that the custom of cold-
weather touring was finally put a stop to in 1899—is
that so ?—Yes ; the District Superintendent had to
come back at the end of the month to sign certain
registers and there was such an order passed.
17029. Was that a good custom or has it in any way
restricted the intercourse of Police Officers with the
people ?—The order was due probably to the shortness
of officers, but now since the Police Commission
recommendations have had effect, we have more officers
at headquarters who are able to do that particular
work which the District Superintendent of Police was
ordered to come back to do, and that order might very
easily be withdrawn.
17030. Does the power with regard to these tours
rest with you ?—Any order like that would be passed
with the approval of Government, and therefore would
have to be withdrawn with the approval of Govern-
ment.
17031. Would it be a good thing to restore the earlier
state of things ?—I think it would certainly.
17032. Have many of your Superintendents an im-
perfect acquaintance with the vernacular ?—As com-
pared with other provinces, perhaps, they have, but in
the United Provinces, for instance, they have only to
do with one language, while in Bengal we deal with
two and very often more—Bengali, Hindi, and if a
man goes to the frontier districts he comes across all
sorts of other languages.
17033. Would the language difficulty be a reason
why you should attempt as far as possible to stop
transfers ?—There would be difficulty in this way ; in
Bihar they have a language of their own, in Bengal
they have a language of their own, in Orissa they have
a language of their own, and, unless you keep a certain
number of officers in each of these three circles, you
can hardly expect any improvement with regard to the
question of vernacular.
17034. Do officers nowadays stay long enough in
their districts to get a real knowledge of them ?—
That has not been the case.
17035. Would it be more advantageous to the
Government to keep an officer even at the risk of
health in an unhealthy district than to transfer him
constantly ?—I think that these transfers have not been
so much due to that reason, as to the depleted cadres
and men going away on leave.
17036. But have you not filled up your cadres ?—We
have not ; we have been trying to do so, but we are
still 27 officers short.
17037. Who is responsible for the transferring of
officers and filling up vacancies and appointments ?—It
rests with the Local Government ; a recommendation
goes up and is accepted or not, as the case may be.
17038. Then has the Inspector-General really no
power to make appointments or transfers?—He has
the power of suggesting, but the responsibility rests
with the Secretary of the Government.
17039. Have you many officers whom, upon the mere
score of inefficiency, you Would like no longer to
retain ?—No, there are not many, and our recent
recruitments have been exceedingly good.
17040. Have you had any difficulty in getting rid of
any such officers ?—Yes. A man may be inefficient,
but Government does not turn him oil, although it is
against the interest of the Government to retain him.
17041. Ought there to be greater power of selection
before promoting officers ?—Yes. We are free to
select officers for promotion, but it is in the recruit-
ments that mistakes are made ; I am not speaking of
the recruitments of late years, but in former years.
17042. Ought you to have greater powers of selection
than you have at present ?—-No, I do not think so ;
the present rules are very good.
17043. Are the traditions of your Service against the
exercise of powers of selection when cases for promo-
tion come up to be considered ?—Yes ; they have been
almost entirely regulated by seniority up to certain
grades, but, latterly, the powers have been extended in
the way of barring officers from entering the higher
grades, and that has now come to be recognized.
17044. Are you quite satisfied with the relations of
your District Superintendents and the District
Officers ?—Yes, except in one or two instances, which
have been put right lately.
17045. Are there not two channels of appeals in
diciplinary matters ?—There were, but that section has
been amended by the new Police Act of 1905, which
we have just had orders to introduce. We have no
longer any reason to complain with regard to that.
17046. Have you anything to say with regard to the
Director-General of Criminal Investigation?—No, he
has not interfered with our province in any way that I
can complain of.
17047. (Mr. Meyer.) Are you quite correct with regard
to what you said about the Police Act of 1905 ?—I
referred to the proposals contained in the Police Act of
1905. It has been hung up, and we have recently got
orders from the Government of India to give effect to
certain sections contained in that Act.
17048. Did not the draft Bill simply lay down the
procedure with respect to appeals ; that there was to
be as a rule only one appeal through the departmental
channel, that is to say, from the District Superinten-
dent to the Inspector-General ?—Yes.
17049. Has the Bengal Government issued depart-
mental instructions, that that is the course which
appeals should take hereafter ?—That order has been
given, but it has not been given effect to yet. The
matter is under consideration.
17050. Is there not an article of the Civil Service
Regulations which says than an officer shall ordinarily
not be allowed halting allowance for more than
10 days, the object being to ensure that an officer tours
properly ? - Yes.
17051. There has been an exception made in the
case of the Criminal Investigation Branch of the police
up to 60 days ; and you want power to the Inspector-
General to give the same latitude to officers of the
ordinary police ?—Yes, should occasion require it.
17052. Criminal investigation work may require an
officer to halt at one place for days and weeks together ?
—Yes, and as a matter of fact they do.
17053. Does that apply to the ordinary police?—
Yes, it does in some cases. Very often an important
case requires a man to be on the spot for several days,
over and above the 10 days. Perhaps not up to the
60 days.
17054. Is not “60 days” rather a large number?
Could you not do, say, with 30 days ?—If we had the
power of relaxing the rules and the power of discretion,
it would be preferable.
17055. Would you stick to the 60 days, though you
admit that there is a difference between the Criminal
Branch and ordinary police work ?—Yes.
17056. As regards the power of the Inspector-
General to withhold memorials to the Local Govern-
ment, is not the rule now that you need not send on
any cases on second appeal with regard to an officer
drawing Rs. 50 or less ?—Yes.
17057. It has been stated that, when appeals are
submitted, the original officer is called upon to reply
to long petitions, paragraph by paragraph, and that
this takes place every time an appeal goes up a stage
higher. Is that so now to your knowledge ?—It has
been so up to a certain date. The officer who has
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE!
Mr. A.
Knyvett.
2 Jan.) 1908.
Mr. A. Knyvett was called and examined.
17025. (Chairman.) You are the Inspector-General
of Police in Bengal ?—Yes, under me there are Deputy
Inpectors-General, District Superintendents, then in-
spectors, and sub-inspectors ; there is also a new grade
of deputy superintendents, which has just been intro-
duced, belonging to the Provincial Service.
17026. We were told in Burma that there were some
difficulties with the Commissioner as regards the post-
ing of inspectors of police—have you found the same
difficulty ?—No, not during the period of my tenure.
17027. Who posts the inspectors ?—It is done by
the Inspector-General of Police in consultation with
the local authorities and in agreement with the Dis-
trict Magistrate.
17028. Mr. Daly told us that the custom of cold-
weather touring was finally put a stop to in 1899—is
that so ?—Yes ; the District Superintendent had to
come back at the end of the month to sign certain
registers and there was such an order passed.
17029. Was that a good custom or has it in any way
restricted the intercourse of Police Officers with the
people ?—The order was due probably to the shortness
of officers, but now since the Police Commission
recommendations have had effect, we have more officers
at headquarters who are able to do that particular
work which the District Superintendent of Police was
ordered to come back to do, and that order might very
easily be withdrawn.
17030. Does the power with regard to these tours
rest with you ?—Any order like that would be passed
with the approval of Government, and therefore would
have to be withdrawn with the approval of Govern-
ment.
17031. Would it be a good thing to restore the earlier
state of things ?—I think it would certainly.
17032. Have many of your Superintendents an im-
perfect acquaintance with the vernacular ?—As com-
pared with other provinces, perhaps, they have, but in
the United Provinces, for instance, they have only to
do with one language, while in Bengal we deal with
two and very often more—Bengali, Hindi, and if a
man goes to the frontier districts he comes across all
sorts of other languages.
17033. Would the language difficulty be a reason
why you should attempt as far as possible to stop
transfers ?—There would be difficulty in this way ; in
Bihar they have a language of their own, in Bengal
they have a language of their own, in Orissa they have
a language of their own, and, unless you keep a certain
number of officers in each of these three circles, you
can hardly expect any improvement with regard to the
question of vernacular.
17034. Do officers nowadays stay long enough in
their districts to get a real knowledge of them ?—
That has not been the case.
17035. Would it be more advantageous to the
Government to keep an officer even at the risk of
health in an unhealthy district than to transfer him
constantly ?—I think that these transfers have not been
so much due to that reason, as to the depleted cadres
and men going away on leave.
17036. But have you not filled up your cadres ?—We
have not ; we have been trying to do so, but we are
still 27 officers short.
17037. Who is responsible for the transferring of
officers and filling up vacancies and appointments ?—It
rests with the Local Government ; a recommendation
goes up and is accepted or not, as the case may be.
17038. Then has the Inspector-General really no
power to make appointments or transfers?—He has
the power of suggesting, but the responsibility rests
with the Secretary of the Government.
17039. Have you many officers whom, upon the mere
score of inefficiency, you Would like no longer to
retain ?—No, there are not many, and our recent
recruitments have been exceedingly good.
17040. Have you had any difficulty in getting rid of
any such officers ?—Yes. A man may be inefficient,
but Government does not turn him oil, although it is
against the interest of the Government to retain him.
17041. Ought there to be greater power of selection
before promoting officers ?—Yes. We are free to
select officers for promotion, but it is in the recruit-
ments that mistakes are made ; I am not speaking of
the recruitments of late years, but in former years.
17042. Ought you to have greater powers of selection
than you have at present ?—-No, I do not think so ;
the present rules are very good.
17043. Are the traditions of your Service against the
exercise of powers of selection when cases for promo-
tion come up to be considered ?—Yes ; they have been
almost entirely regulated by seniority up to certain
grades, but, latterly, the powers have been extended in
the way of barring officers from entering the higher
grades, and that has now come to be recognized.
17044. Are you quite satisfied with the relations of
your District Superintendents and the District
Officers ?—Yes, except in one or two instances, which
have been put right lately.
17045. Are there not two channels of appeals in
diciplinary matters ?—There were, but that section has
been amended by the new Police Act of 1905, which
we have just had orders to introduce. We have no
longer any reason to complain with regard to that.
17046. Have you anything to say with regard to the
Director-General of Criminal Investigation?—No, he
has not interfered with our province in any way that I
can complain of.
17047. (Mr. Meyer.) Are you quite correct with regard
to what you said about the Police Act of 1905 ?—I
referred to the proposals contained in the Police Act of
1905. It has been hung up, and we have recently got
orders from the Government of India to give effect to
certain sections contained in that Act.
17048. Did not the draft Bill simply lay down the
procedure with respect to appeals ; that there was to
be as a rule only one appeal through the departmental
channel, that is to say, from the District Superinten-
dent to the Inspector-General ?—Yes.
17049. Has the Bengal Government issued depart-
mental instructions, that that is the course which
appeals should take hereafter ?—That order has been
given, but it has not been given effect to yet. The
matter is under consideration.
17050. Is there not an article of the Civil Service
Regulations which says than an officer shall ordinarily
not be allowed halting allowance for more than
10 days, the object being to ensure that an officer tours
properly ? - Yes.
17051. There has been an exception made in the
case of the Criminal Investigation Branch of the police
up to 60 days ; and you want power to the Inspector-
General to give the same latitude to officers of the
ordinary police ?—Yes, should occasion require it.
17052. Criminal investigation work may require an
officer to halt at one place for days and weeks together ?
—Yes, and as a matter of fact they do.
17053. Does that apply to the ordinary police?—
Yes, it does in some cases. Very often an important
case requires a man to be on the spot for several days,
over and above the 10 days. Perhaps not up to the
60 days.
17054. Is not “60 days” rather a large number?
Could you not do, say, with 30 days ?—If we had the
power of relaxing the rules and the power of discretion,
it would be preferable.
17055. Would you stick to the 60 days, though you
admit that there is a difference between the Criminal
Branch and ordinary police work ?—Yes.
17056. As regards the power of the Inspector-
General to withhold memorials to the Local Govern-
ment, is not the rule now that you need not send on
any cases on second appeal with regard to an officer
drawing Rs. 50 or less ?—Yes.
17057. It has been stated that, when appeals are
submitted, the original officer is called upon to reply
to long petitions, paragraph by paragraph, and that
this takes place every time an appeal goes up a stage
higher. Is that so now to your knowledge ?—It has
been so up to a certain date. The officer who has