DOI Seite / Zitierlink:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0116
Col. Macrae.
2 Jan., 1908.
110 MINUTES OF
17132. Have you ever asked permission to fill up
the recognised cadre of Assistant Surgeons and Hospital
Assistants without reference to the Government ?—I
have not : I have taken the system as I found it and
gone on with it. It is very likely that there are points
as to which if I had represented them and asked for
full authority, I probably should have got it.
17133. You rather resent the fact that when you
make suggestions as to medical matters to the Govern-
ment the Financial Secretary deals with them instead
of their going straight to the Lieutenant-Governor ?—
It is not that that I object to so much ; it is the system
in the office before it gets to the Financial Secretary ;
it is noted on by several people before it arrives at the
Financial Secretary, by clerks and people of that class.
17134. Does not an analogous system exist in your
office ?—That is a different matter. Before a proposal
is sent from me it has been thoroughly threshed out in
my office before it goes to the Secretariat.
17135. Is not the Secretariat a larger office and
better acquainted with precedents and general lines of
policy than your office could be ?—There is a good deal
of truth in that, but the remedy I think is to strengthen
my office, and to let me deal with the matters.
17136. Still, as matters now stand, is there not some
justification for it?— No doubt it promotes efficiency ;
we probably escape making mistakes by having this
system.
17137. Are not Hospital Assistants on a uniform
rate of pay throughout India ?—I think they are ;
they begin on Rs. 25 a month and go on through
various grades until they arrive at Rs. 70.
17138. The grades and rates of pay being fixed by
the Government of India ?—Yes.
17139. Have you had occasion to consider that the
general rates of pay were not sufficient ? -Yes. As a
matter of fact, we sent up proposals to the Government
of India two and a half years ago, and they are still
considering- them in connection with some scheme for
the improvement of the Service generally.
17140. You can supplement the rates of pay by local
allowances?—Very small allowances. We are very
much hampered there by the Local Government not
having sufficient financial power in that respect. Under
the Civil Service Regulations we cannot give any local
or staff allowance to our officers without reference to
the Government of India, although the charges are
debitable to the provincial Government.
17141. Is there a special reserve of officers of the
Indian Medical Service ? —Yes.
17142. Is it distributed by the Government of India
as it chooses ?—We get a certain fixed percentage
of the reserve—20 per cent.—to make up for leave
vacancies, sickness and emergencies.
17143. Are you liable to be disturbed by a sudden
change of plan on the part of the Director-General of
the Indian Medical Service ?—I imagine that if there
was any emergency in any other province he would
withdraw some of our men. In ordinary times I fancy
we have a reasonable certainty of a given number of
officers.
17144. Are there similar reserves, on the basis of a
fixed percentage, of Military Assistant Surgeons and
Hospital Assistants and so on ?—Yes.
17145. You make a suggestion that the Sanitary
Commissioner and the Inspector-General of Prisons
should on occasion inspect medical institutions for
you ?—Yes ; I have suggested that with reference to a
question as to whether any increase in administrative
officers is necessary. This province is so large that
neither I nor the Inspector-General or anybody can
inspect it in one year. These two officers are always
inspecting ; and I think it would promote efficiency if
they were to inspect the hospitals at those places as
well as the jails and municipalities which they do go
and inspect.
17146. Would that not cause any friction with the
Civil Surgeon ?—I only suggest that they should
inspect hospitals of Civil Surgeons who are their
juniors, not those in charge of Civil Surgeons ?—I do
not think that that wouid be likely to excite resent-
ment ; after all, the Inspector-General of Jails and
Sanitary Commissioner are Medical Officers.
EVIDENCE:
17147. Would you be prepared to go a step further
and make the Sanitary < ommissioner a Deputy In-
spector-General ? —He used to be under the 1 nspector-
General. Since 1905 he has been independent.
He was previously nominally under the Inspector-
General, but he was practically independent; that is,
he retained all his powers of initiative. He was ap-
pointed to do this inspecting work, and given the rank
of Deputy Inspector-General, so as to have more
authority with Civil Surgeons.
17148. Would you be in favour of reverting to that
system ?—I think it is better than the one now in
force.
17149. {Sir Steyn'mg Edgerley.) You say you have a
fixed share of the reserve of the Indian Medical
Service. Do you get recruits when they first come out
to the country ?—No. Every Indian Medical Service
officer is posted to military duty when he comes to the
country, and he has to serve for two years in military
employ before he can be appointed to civil duty.
17150. When do they generally come to the Civil
Department in Bengal ?—It varies very much ; three
or four or five years ; some very much later.
17151. How is your proportion of the reserve arrived
at ?—We have a fixed reserve of four.
17152. Directly your cadre falls below strength, do
you get another man to replace one who has gone ?—•
Just so.
17153. Are any of these young officers under five
years’ service posted to the military hospitals in
Calcutta ?—They are attached to regiments. They are
nearly all with native regiments.
17154. Is that a useful training ?—In several respects
it is. I think it is an excellent thing that young
officers coming out to the country should be taught
discipline, and get into the way of knowing the natives;
they come across an excellent class of native officers,
and get familiar with their manners and customs.
17155. Would it not do them good to attach them
to civil hospitals for a time?—We have in Calcutta
here five junior resident surgeonships at the large
hospitals, and we try to post every junior officer as
much as we possibly can to one of these posts, so as to
give him a training.
17156. Is that after he has come into civil employ,
or before ?—When a man is posted to Bengal civil
employ. If we have a vacancy as resident surgeon at
any of our large hospitals, we like to post a young
man coming to us, so as to give him experience before
he is posted to a district.
17157. Is your reserve ever more than is needed to
fill vacancies ?—Very rarely. We have now several
men on plague duty ; in Bihar we have three or four
officers now on plague duty, but we hardly ever have
them on general duty.
17158. Has the Director-General always made these
appointments of professors at the Medical College ?—
The system is that when a professorship falls vacant
we have the first nomination in the province. If we
have what we consider a suitable man for the post, his
name is sent up to the Government of India for their
approval, and if they do not think they have got a
better man in some other province, they approve our
selection ; and, even if they do not approve, we need
not necessarily accept their man.
17159. They offer you another man whom you can
take if you choose?—Yes, but if we think our own
man is better, we can still push his claims.
17160. Have those appointments always been sub-
ject to the approval of the Government of India ?—
No, since 20 years ago.
17161. Was it in any way due to the difficulty of
getting good men for those appointments, owing to the
amalgamation of the Service?—I think the principal
reason was to give us a better field of selection.
Obviously, we have now the whole of the Bengal
Presidency to choose from ; formerly we only had the
Bengal province.
17162. The Madras and Bombay Colleges have not
the same advantage ?—No.
17163. Is the Civil Surgeon the Head of the sani-
tary work in the districts ?—Yes ; he is the backbone
of the whole sanitary system.
2 Jan., 1908.
110 MINUTES OF
17132. Have you ever asked permission to fill up
the recognised cadre of Assistant Surgeons and Hospital
Assistants without reference to the Government ?—I
have not : I have taken the system as I found it and
gone on with it. It is very likely that there are points
as to which if I had represented them and asked for
full authority, I probably should have got it.
17133. You rather resent the fact that when you
make suggestions as to medical matters to the Govern-
ment the Financial Secretary deals with them instead
of their going straight to the Lieutenant-Governor ?—
It is not that that I object to so much ; it is the system
in the office before it gets to the Financial Secretary ;
it is noted on by several people before it arrives at the
Financial Secretary, by clerks and people of that class.
17134. Does not an analogous system exist in your
office ?—That is a different matter. Before a proposal
is sent from me it has been thoroughly threshed out in
my office before it goes to the Secretariat.
17135. Is not the Secretariat a larger office and
better acquainted with precedents and general lines of
policy than your office could be ?—There is a good deal
of truth in that, but the remedy I think is to strengthen
my office, and to let me deal with the matters.
17136. Still, as matters now stand, is there not some
justification for it?— No doubt it promotes efficiency ;
we probably escape making mistakes by having this
system.
17137. Are not Hospital Assistants on a uniform
rate of pay throughout India ?—I think they are ;
they begin on Rs. 25 a month and go on through
various grades until they arrive at Rs. 70.
17138. The grades and rates of pay being fixed by
the Government of India ?—Yes.
17139. Have you had occasion to consider that the
general rates of pay were not sufficient ? -Yes. As a
matter of fact, we sent up proposals to the Government
of India two and a half years ago, and they are still
considering- them in connection with some scheme for
the improvement of the Service generally.
17140. You can supplement the rates of pay by local
allowances?—Very small allowances. We are very
much hampered there by the Local Government not
having sufficient financial power in that respect. Under
the Civil Service Regulations we cannot give any local
or staff allowance to our officers without reference to
the Government of India, although the charges are
debitable to the provincial Government.
17141. Is there a special reserve of officers of the
Indian Medical Service ? —Yes.
17142. Is it distributed by the Government of India
as it chooses ?—We get a certain fixed percentage
of the reserve—20 per cent.—to make up for leave
vacancies, sickness and emergencies.
17143. Are you liable to be disturbed by a sudden
change of plan on the part of the Director-General of
the Indian Medical Service ?—I imagine that if there
was any emergency in any other province he would
withdraw some of our men. In ordinary times I fancy
we have a reasonable certainty of a given number of
officers.
17144. Are there similar reserves, on the basis of a
fixed percentage, of Military Assistant Surgeons and
Hospital Assistants and so on ?—Yes.
17145. You make a suggestion that the Sanitary
Commissioner and the Inspector-General of Prisons
should on occasion inspect medical institutions for
you ?—Yes ; I have suggested that with reference to a
question as to whether any increase in administrative
officers is necessary. This province is so large that
neither I nor the Inspector-General or anybody can
inspect it in one year. These two officers are always
inspecting ; and I think it would promote efficiency if
they were to inspect the hospitals at those places as
well as the jails and municipalities which they do go
and inspect.
17146. Would that not cause any friction with the
Civil Surgeon ?—I only suggest that they should
inspect hospitals of Civil Surgeons who are their
juniors, not those in charge of Civil Surgeons ?—I do
not think that that wouid be likely to excite resent-
ment ; after all, the Inspector-General of Jails and
Sanitary Commissioner are Medical Officers.
EVIDENCE:
17147. Would you be prepared to go a step further
and make the Sanitary < ommissioner a Deputy In-
spector-General ? —He used to be under the 1 nspector-
General. Since 1905 he has been independent.
He was previously nominally under the Inspector-
General, but he was practically independent; that is,
he retained all his powers of initiative. He was ap-
pointed to do this inspecting work, and given the rank
of Deputy Inspector-General, so as to have more
authority with Civil Surgeons.
17148. Would you be in favour of reverting to that
system ?—I think it is better than the one now in
force.
17149. {Sir Steyn'mg Edgerley.) You say you have a
fixed share of the reserve of the Indian Medical
Service. Do you get recruits when they first come out
to the country ?—No. Every Indian Medical Service
officer is posted to military duty when he comes to the
country, and he has to serve for two years in military
employ before he can be appointed to civil duty.
17150. When do they generally come to the Civil
Department in Bengal ?—It varies very much ; three
or four or five years ; some very much later.
17151. How is your proportion of the reserve arrived
at ?—We have a fixed reserve of four.
17152. Directly your cadre falls below strength, do
you get another man to replace one who has gone ?—•
Just so.
17153. Are any of these young officers under five
years’ service posted to the military hospitals in
Calcutta ?—They are attached to regiments. They are
nearly all with native regiments.
17154. Is that a useful training ?—In several respects
it is. I think it is an excellent thing that young
officers coming out to the country should be taught
discipline, and get into the way of knowing the natives;
they come across an excellent class of native officers,
and get familiar with their manners and customs.
17155. Would it not do them good to attach them
to civil hospitals for a time?—We have in Calcutta
here five junior resident surgeonships at the large
hospitals, and we try to post every junior officer as
much as we possibly can to one of these posts, so as to
give him a training.
17156. Is that after he has come into civil employ,
or before ?—When a man is posted to Bengal civil
employ. If we have a vacancy as resident surgeon at
any of our large hospitals, we like to post a young
man coming to us, so as to give him experience before
he is posted to a district.
17157. Is your reserve ever more than is needed to
fill vacancies ?—Very rarely. We have now several
men on plague duty ; in Bihar we have three or four
officers now on plague duty, but we hardly ever have
them on general duty.
17158. Has the Director-General always made these
appointments of professors at the Medical College ?—
The system is that when a professorship falls vacant
we have the first nomination in the province. If we
have what we consider a suitable man for the post, his
name is sent up to the Government of India for their
approval, and if they do not think they have got a
better man in some other province, they approve our
selection ; and, even if they do not approve, we need
not necessarily accept their man.
17159. They offer you another man whom you can
take if you choose?—Yes, but if we think our own
man is better, we can still push his claims.
17160. Have those appointments always been sub-
ject to the approval of the Government of India ?—
No, since 20 years ago.
17161. Was it in any way due to the difficulty of
getting good men for those appointments, owing to the
amalgamation of the Service?—I think the principal
reason was to give us a better field of selection.
Obviously, we have now the whole of the Bengal
Presidency to choose from ; formerly we only had the
Bengal province.
17162. The Madras and Bombay Colleges have not
the same advantage ?—No.
17163. Is the Civil Surgeon the Head of the sani-
tary work in the districts ?—Yes ; he is the backbone
of the whole sanitary system.