DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0149
ROYAL COMMISSION UPON DECENTRALIZATION.
143
part of the people that the official holds aloof, and,
with the best intentions, misapprehension is created
which gives rise to feeling of diffidence.
17880. Would there be any means, such as instruct-
ing officers in the habits and etiquette of Indian social
life, of removing that misapprehension ?—I think so.
There are officials who are very much liked in this
province and in other provinces too. They know the
language and they know the customs.
17881. Would it be possible in any way to formulate,
for the help and assistance of young District Officers,
the principal features of the etiquette and social life of
Indian Society, so as to guide them when they first
come out ?—I should say general instructions are
probably enough ; there should be no special instruc-
tions required. When the Lieutenant-Governor goes
on tour, if he is accessible himself, and tells people
that they should be accessible to the Collector and the
Collector to them, the whole thing would be much
improved. There is a great deal of aloofness on both
sides, due a great deal to misapprehension.
17882. We have been told that it was difficult for
a District Officer to get into touch with the people in
Bengal, because of the existence of the permanent
settlement; do you think that is an obstacle ?—I think
not ; I do not think it has anything to do with it one
way or the other.
17883. With regard to the right of appeal, do you
wish to see the present practice in any way altered ?—
I would not curtail it in any respect.
17884. Would you, for instance, allow an officer who
can appoint a man on Rs. 20 or Rs. 30, or even up to
Rs. 100, to be the final authority in pronouncing a
verdict upon his conduct ?—I think it would be hard
on the subordinate officers.
17885. Is the difficulty of officers coming into touch
with the people caused in any way by the size of the
districts ?—I do not think so.
17886. Would the appointment of a Joint-Magistrate
be a good thing in order to help in the disposal of the
work ?—Yes, and the District Officer would be more
liked and people would place more confidence in him
if he had no judicial powers.
17887. Might there be an Advisory Council either
for a Collector or a Commissioner ?—I think an Ad-
visory Council would be helpful to a Commissioner in
some respects.
17888. Would you have an Advisory Council for a
Collector formed from persons serving already on
District Boards and municipalities?—You might ex-
tend the number for purposes of giving advice pure
and simple, but otherwise, for administrative purposes,
the District Boards are quite sufficient.
17889. Do Commissioners and Collectors at present
seek the advice and counsel of native gentlemen ?—
Some do—it depends on the individual.
17890. Would you like to see a general instruction
issued by the Government of Bengal that all officials
should so seek advice ?—I think so, and it would dis-
pose of a lot of the present misunderstanding. I am
sure that the present state of things is more due to
misunderstanding on the part of the officers and the
people than anything else.
17891. With regard to municipalities and District
Boards, do you think that either one or the other
could be entrusted with larger powers than they have ?
—Yes, with powers to control their own bodies with
the sanction of the Local Government.
17892. Would you extend the experiment of local
self-government to villages ?—It might be done as an
experiment, carefully.
17893. In an ordinary village could you find persons
who would be quite capable of dealing with petty civil
and criminal cases?-—In some villages there are such
persons : in all these things it is very difficult to
generalise. The circumstances of one village are not
the same as the circumstances of another, but certain
villages might be selected, and if the experiment was
found to be suceessful, it might be adopted or modi-
fied or otherwise, but it is very difficult to draw a
hard and fast rule.
17894. (Mr. Dutt.) Would you utilise the existing
District Boards as Advisory Councils ? That is to say,
should the Collector ask members of the District
Board to give him advice on other matters than those
connected with the District Board ?—Yes. On the
District Boards, there are many subjects which are not
represented—for instance, religious instruction—and
they might be useful as advisory bodies in that way,
and also in the case of any trouble between Hindus
and Muhammadans. If a Collector wanted any in-
formation in a non-official way there ought to be
nothing to stop him, and that information might be
given in conversation or in writing, and the more inter-
course the better.
17895. (Mr. Hichens.) Do you want a District
Advisory Council and a Divisional Council and also
an Administrative Council ?—Simply for extraordinary
subjects.
17896. Would you advocate a Collector or Com-
missioner seeking advice from other sources ; for
instance, if there were Agricultural Societies would
you allow him to seek advice from them ?—Yes. I do
not want to restrict his power of seeking advice : on
the contrary, I want it extended as much as possible.
17897. If you had a body called an Advisory
Council, would it not be rather a temptation for the
Commissioner to think that he need not seek advice
elsewhere ?—He would use his discretion. I do not
think there is any such danger, or if there was, he
might get instructions.
17898. With regard to the Administrative Council
that you suggest, what is it to do ?—That would act
for the division ; in the districts the District Boards
and municipalities would do the whole work of the
Administrative Council.
1-7899. Then do you not want to have an Adminis-
trative Council for the Collector as well as an Advisory
Council ?—No, I think not.
17900. Do you mean by an Administrative Council,
the District Board ?—Yes, practically the people who
form the District Board should form the Council—I
mean the leading people in the district. You can call
them District Board or Administrative Council or
whatever you like ; it would mean practically the same
men, and there is no need for two bodies.
17901. Do you think from your experience that the
time is ripe for giving any further powers in the
matter of local self-government ?—Yes, further powers
might be given them beyond preparing their own
budgets.
17902. Are you prepared to take the risk of a larger
number of mistakes being made?—Yes, I think so.
The risk has to be taken ; a man has first to be a child
before he is a man.
17903. Would you be prepared to entrust some of
the more junior officers of the Government with wider
powers than they have to-day in order to give them a
fuller sense of responsibility ?—I think their powers
are wide enough. 1 am not prepared to entrust them
with further powers.
17904. (Mr. Meyer.) You have a very large estate, is
there a great deal of work in connection with it ?
Suppose some of your raiyats are dissatisfied with any
orders, do appeals come right up to you ?—Yes.
17905. Do you want a Commissioner to have an
Advisory Council to be assembled from time to time
in order to give him advice ?—Yes.
17906. Are the members to over rule the Com-
missioner ?—I do not think so. They should simply
tender advice, and the Commissioner must have the
responsibility.
17907. You do not mean that they should be given
administrative powers—that one should look after
income-tax and that another should look after Local
Boards, and that kind of thing—but you mean merely
a Council of Advisers which the Commissioner can
over-rule if he is not in agreement with him ?—Yes.
17908. Do you no longer want the Collector to be
Chairman of the District Board ?—In some places you
probably could not get a good unofficial Chairman,
but if you could, then I should like him to be Chair-
man. It would be a difficult thing to get a good non-
official Chairman.
17909. Would it be a good thing to take the Collector
away from immediate contact with the work con-
nected with roads, education, sanitation, and various
things which the District Board deals with ?—I do not
know the working of the District Board system.
The
Maharaja
Bahadur of
Darbhanga.
4 Jan., 1908.
143
part of the people that the official holds aloof, and,
with the best intentions, misapprehension is created
which gives rise to feeling of diffidence.
17880. Would there be any means, such as instruct-
ing officers in the habits and etiquette of Indian social
life, of removing that misapprehension ?—I think so.
There are officials who are very much liked in this
province and in other provinces too. They know the
language and they know the customs.
17881. Would it be possible in any way to formulate,
for the help and assistance of young District Officers,
the principal features of the etiquette and social life of
Indian Society, so as to guide them when they first
come out ?—I should say general instructions are
probably enough ; there should be no special instruc-
tions required. When the Lieutenant-Governor goes
on tour, if he is accessible himself, and tells people
that they should be accessible to the Collector and the
Collector to them, the whole thing would be much
improved. There is a great deal of aloofness on both
sides, due a great deal to misapprehension.
17882. We have been told that it was difficult for
a District Officer to get into touch with the people in
Bengal, because of the existence of the permanent
settlement; do you think that is an obstacle ?—I think
not ; I do not think it has anything to do with it one
way or the other.
17883. With regard to the right of appeal, do you
wish to see the present practice in any way altered ?—
I would not curtail it in any respect.
17884. Would you, for instance, allow an officer who
can appoint a man on Rs. 20 or Rs. 30, or even up to
Rs. 100, to be the final authority in pronouncing a
verdict upon his conduct ?—I think it would be hard
on the subordinate officers.
17885. Is the difficulty of officers coming into touch
with the people caused in any way by the size of the
districts ?—I do not think so.
17886. Would the appointment of a Joint-Magistrate
be a good thing in order to help in the disposal of the
work ?—Yes, and the District Officer would be more
liked and people would place more confidence in him
if he had no judicial powers.
17887. Might there be an Advisory Council either
for a Collector or a Commissioner ?—I think an Ad-
visory Council would be helpful to a Commissioner in
some respects.
17888. Would you have an Advisory Council for a
Collector formed from persons serving already on
District Boards and municipalities?—You might ex-
tend the number for purposes of giving advice pure
and simple, but otherwise, for administrative purposes,
the District Boards are quite sufficient.
17889. Do Commissioners and Collectors at present
seek the advice and counsel of native gentlemen ?—
Some do—it depends on the individual.
17890. Would you like to see a general instruction
issued by the Government of Bengal that all officials
should so seek advice ?—I think so, and it would dis-
pose of a lot of the present misunderstanding. I am
sure that the present state of things is more due to
misunderstanding on the part of the officers and the
people than anything else.
17891. With regard to municipalities and District
Boards, do you think that either one or the other
could be entrusted with larger powers than they have ?
—Yes, with powers to control their own bodies with
the sanction of the Local Government.
17892. Would you extend the experiment of local
self-government to villages ?—It might be done as an
experiment, carefully.
17893. In an ordinary village could you find persons
who would be quite capable of dealing with petty civil
and criminal cases?-—In some villages there are such
persons : in all these things it is very difficult to
generalise. The circumstances of one village are not
the same as the circumstances of another, but certain
villages might be selected, and if the experiment was
found to be suceessful, it might be adopted or modi-
fied or otherwise, but it is very difficult to draw a
hard and fast rule.
17894. (Mr. Dutt.) Would you utilise the existing
District Boards as Advisory Councils ? That is to say,
should the Collector ask members of the District
Board to give him advice on other matters than those
connected with the District Board ?—Yes. On the
District Boards, there are many subjects which are not
represented—for instance, religious instruction—and
they might be useful as advisory bodies in that way,
and also in the case of any trouble between Hindus
and Muhammadans. If a Collector wanted any in-
formation in a non-official way there ought to be
nothing to stop him, and that information might be
given in conversation or in writing, and the more inter-
course the better.
17895. (Mr. Hichens.) Do you want a District
Advisory Council and a Divisional Council and also
an Administrative Council ?—Simply for extraordinary
subjects.
17896. Would you advocate a Collector or Com-
missioner seeking advice from other sources ; for
instance, if there were Agricultural Societies would
you allow him to seek advice from them ?—Yes. I do
not want to restrict his power of seeking advice : on
the contrary, I want it extended as much as possible.
17897. If you had a body called an Advisory
Council, would it not be rather a temptation for the
Commissioner to think that he need not seek advice
elsewhere ?—He would use his discretion. I do not
think there is any such danger, or if there was, he
might get instructions.
17898. With regard to the Administrative Council
that you suggest, what is it to do ?—That would act
for the division ; in the districts the District Boards
and municipalities would do the whole work of the
Administrative Council.
1-7899. Then do you not want to have an Adminis-
trative Council for the Collector as well as an Advisory
Council ?—No, I think not.
17900. Do you mean by an Administrative Council,
the District Board ?—Yes, practically the people who
form the District Board should form the Council—I
mean the leading people in the district. You can call
them District Board or Administrative Council or
whatever you like ; it would mean practically the same
men, and there is no need for two bodies.
17901. Do you think from your experience that the
time is ripe for giving any further powers in the
matter of local self-government ?—Yes, further powers
might be given them beyond preparing their own
budgets.
17902. Are you prepared to take the risk of a larger
number of mistakes being made?—Yes, I think so.
The risk has to be taken ; a man has first to be a child
before he is a man.
17903. Would you be prepared to entrust some of
the more junior officers of the Government with wider
powers than they have to-day in order to give them a
fuller sense of responsibility ?—I think their powers
are wide enough. 1 am not prepared to entrust them
with further powers.
17904. (Mr. Meyer.) You have a very large estate, is
there a great deal of work in connection with it ?
Suppose some of your raiyats are dissatisfied with any
orders, do appeals come right up to you ?—Yes.
17905. Do you want a Commissioner to have an
Advisory Council to be assembled from time to time
in order to give him advice ?—Yes.
17906. Are the members to over rule the Com-
missioner ?—I do not think so. They should simply
tender advice, and the Commissioner must have the
responsibility.
17907. You do not mean that they should be given
administrative powers—that one should look after
income-tax and that another should look after Local
Boards, and that kind of thing—but you mean merely
a Council of Advisers which the Commissioner can
over-rule if he is not in agreement with him ?—Yes.
17908. Do you no longer want the Collector to be
Chairman of the District Board ?—In some places you
probably could not get a good unofficial Chairman,
but if you could, then I should like him to be Chair-
man. It would be a difficult thing to get a good non-
official Chairman.
17909. Would it be a good thing to take the Collector
away from immediate contact with the work con-
nected with roads, education, sanitation, and various
things which the District Board deals with ?—I do not
know the working of the District Board system.
The
Maharaja
Bahadur of
Darbhanga.
4 Jan., 1908.