DOI Seite / Zitierlink:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0193
EOYAL COMMISSION UPON DECENTRALIZATION.
187
any power was delegated there should be a Gazette
notification of the delegation, and in case of opposition
the case should be left to the Government of India to
decide—am I correct ?—That is one way of safe-
guarding the exercise of power. It has also been
suggested that you might allow the Legislative Council
to decide with regard to the delegation of powers.
18975. Would you do it by bringing in an amending
Act ?—The Legislative Council might be empowered
to sit and consider the question of delegation.
18976. Would it be within its province to consider
it unless it came before them in the shape of a Bill ?—
They might be formerly empowered; it could be
provided in a delegating Act that the question of
delegation should be considered by the Legislative
Council sitting in committee.
18977. Would the safeguards which you suggest be
any simpler in operation than the bringing in of an
amending Act and passing it in the usual way?—
There are so many Acts under which statutory powers
are exercised that to deal with each subject, Act by
Act, would mean an enormous amount of legislation.
18978. Could they not be grouped in a schedule and
the whole thing passed in one Act ?—I think there is
much to be said in favour of a schedule.
18979. Would that not be a simpler way of
providing the safeguards which you have suggested ?—■
The simpler way undoubtedly would be the shorter
cut, and it might be that a schedule would be a way of
achieving the end more satisfactory to the public
generally.
18980. So that on the whole you would prefer the
latter course ?—I should like to hear both proposals
discussed.
18981. You said that under present arrangements
some portions of the work of the Board of Revenue
are likely to merge in the Bengal Secretariat ?—I
cannot foresee what is going to happen, but the
tendency is towards amalgamation.
18982. Would that be a desirable result ?—Yes.
18983. The Board of Revenue is to some extent a
separate and independent body ?—Yes.
18984. Would it be desirable that some portion of
the work of that independent body should merge in
the Bengal Secretariat ?—I do not think it is desirable
that important work at present done by the members
should in future be done by Secretaries.
18985. That work you would keep separate ?—There
should be safeguards.
18986. At any rate, if the work of the Board of
Revenue, or a portion of it, did disappear, would
you suggest that the members of the Board should
perform other functions and become colleagues of the
Lieutenant-Governor, not only for the purposes of
revenue administration but with respect to all kinds
of administration ?—It is advisable that they should
be consulted so far as they have time to spare from
their revenue duties, and in fact it is the practice in
Bengal to consult them outside their revenue work.
18987. But that is only done occasionally?—It is
only done occasionally.
18988. Would you like it to be made a rule that
they should be consulted in all important matters ?—
No, I would not make it a rule.
18989. Or that they should become members of the
Lieutenant-Governor’s Executive Council?—I would
leave that to the discretion of the Lieutenant-
Governor.
18990. Is there any portion of the District Officer’s
work in which the advice of a formally constituted
Council would be valuable to him ?—Outside the
District Board and the municipal authority, I would
not say that there is no matter in which an Advisory
Council could not give useful advice ; an Advisory
Council properly constituted could often give valuable
advice.
18991. So that to that extent you have no objection
to the formation of an Advisory Council ?—There
might be, and I think there would be, counterbalancing
disadvantages in those branches of the work in which
the District Officer at present acts without the help
of the District Board and Municipal Commissioners.
. 33263
18992. Would the idea be to leave it to the
discretion of the District Officer in matters where
prompt action was necessary, but in matters which
could wait and in which in the opinion of some of the
leading people it was desirable, a meeting might be
convened ?—I would not bind him to convene an
Advisory Council.
18993. And you would not nominate certain people
as members of an Advisory Council ?—Not at present ;
that would excite expectation and hopes which could
not be fulfilled.
18994. Then would you leave the District Officer to
consult people as he does at present ?—Yes.
18995. If such a Council were formed would it make
district administration a little more popular ?—To a
certain extent, yes.
18996. But you do not want to undertake it now ?—
No.
18997. You say that there are certain villages in
which it is possible to create some sort of a panchayat
and to impose some work upon them at once ?—I hope
there are many such villages.
18998. That depends on the advancement of the
people ?—Yes.
18999. In some places you would find it difficult to
carry out such a scheme ?—Yes.
19000. In places where matters were more advanced
would it be advisable to take that work in hand now
and to organise village panchayats ?—Yes, the Bengal
Government is now taking action in that direction.
19001. (Sir Frederic Lely.) You speak with approval
of the specialisation of departments ; you are not one
of those persons who think that departmentalism is
one of the deteriorating influences of the present day
Government ?—On the whole, no; I think that
departments have at times done harm, but on the
whole departmentalism has not been an evil in Bengal.
19002. You would admit that they represent a
tendency which should be checked ?—It should be very
carefully watched.
19003. The one man who is above departments and
who is also in actual touch with the condition of things
is the Commissioner ?—Yes.
19004. And he also is generally a man of greater
experience than the Head of a Department. There-
fore, would it not be a good thing to give him a certain
amount of power to bring everything into line and to
exercise control over outside departments ?—The
Commissioner in Bengal has much power of this kind.
19005. But this power consists only in the shape of
being able to give an opinion ?—He can bring any
defects to the notice of Government. He sees budgets
and estimates and annual reports.
19006. I am speaking now of education, excise, and
medical work ?—He sees them all; all the education
budgets go to him from the inspector of schools ; there
is no important matter with regard to education upon
which the Commissioner is not consulted and upon
which it is not his duty to express an opinion ; he is
accustomed to visit schools of all kinds, and to interfere
if anything appears to him to be wrong.
19007. Generally, has he any authority other than
purely consultative ?—He has power to object ; he
could not at once deal with a defect because he would
have to write to the Inspector or Director of Public
Instruction with regard to an educational matter ; he
could not pass orders at once correcting anything that
was wrong unless in a case of friction between two
departments, and then probably he would at once pass
an order putting things right, for instance, between a.
District Magistrate and an education authority.
19008. Has he power to enforce his views ?—No, I
would not go so far as to say that.
19009. Has he sufficient power to induce him to take
an interest in such matters as excise and education and
their general effect on the welfare of the people ?—I
think so.
19010. (Chairman.) You say that he has not power*
to enforce his views, but would a strong expression of
his views to any official concerned result generally in
the attitude which he took up being adopted?—It
would practically result in action being suspended, and
the matter being referred to the Government by the
2 A 2
The Hon.
Mr. William
Charles
Macpherson.
29 Jan., 1908
187
any power was delegated there should be a Gazette
notification of the delegation, and in case of opposition
the case should be left to the Government of India to
decide—am I correct ?—That is one way of safe-
guarding the exercise of power. It has also been
suggested that you might allow the Legislative Council
to decide with regard to the delegation of powers.
18975. Would you do it by bringing in an amending
Act ?—The Legislative Council might be empowered
to sit and consider the question of delegation.
18976. Would it be within its province to consider
it unless it came before them in the shape of a Bill ?—
They might be formerly empowered; it could be
provided in a delegating Act that the question of
delegation should be considered by the Legislative
Council sitting in committee.
18977. Would the safeguards which you suggest be
any simpler in operation than the bringing in of an
amending Act and passing it in the usual way?—
There are so many Acts under which statutory powers
are exercised that to deal with each subject, Act by
Act, would mean an enormous amount of legislation.
18978. Could they not be grouped in a schedule and
the whole thing passed in one Act ?—I think there is
much to be said in favour of a schedule.
18979. Would that not be a simpler way of
providing the safeguards which you have suggested ?—■
The simpler way undoubtedly would be the shorter
cut, and it might be that a schedule would be a way of
achieving the end more satisfactory to the public
generally.
18980. So that on the whole you would prefer the
latter course ?—I should like to hear both proposals
discussed.
18981. You said that under present arrangements
some portions of the work of the Board of Revenue
are likely to merge in the Bengal Secretariat ?—I
cannot foresee what is going to happen, but the
tendency is towards amalgamation.
18982. Would that be a desirable result ?—Yes.
18983. The Board of Revenue is to some extent a
separate and independent body ?—Yes.
18984. Would it be desirable that some portion of
the work of that independent body should merge in
the Bengal Secretariat ?—I do not think it is desirable
that important work at present done by the members
should in future be done by Secretaries.
18985. That work you would keep separate ?—There
should be safeguards.
18986. At any rate, if the work of the Board of
Revenue, or a portion of it, did disappear, would
you suggest that the members of the Board should
perform other functions and become colleagues of the
Lieutenant-Governor, not only for the purposes of
revenue administration but with respect to all kinds
of administration ?—It is advisable that they should
be consulted so far as they have time to spare from
their revenue duties, and in fact it is the practice in
Bengal to consult them outside their revenue work.
18987. But that is only done occasionally?—It is
only done occasionally.
18988. Would you like it to be made a rule that
they should be consulted in all important matters ?—
No, I would not make it a rule.
18989. Or that they should become members of the
Lieutenant-Governor’s Executive Council?—I would
leave that to the discretion of the Lieutenant-
Governor.
18990. Is there any portion of the District Officer’s
work in which the advice of a formally constituted
Council would be valuable to him ?—Outside the
District Board and the municipal authority, I would
not say that there is no matter in which an Advisory
Council could not give useful advice ; an Advisory
Council properly constituted could often give valuable
advice.
18991. So that to that extent you have no objection
to the formation of an Advisory Council ?—There
might be, and I think there would be, counterbalancing
disadvantages in those branches of the work in which
the District Officer at present acts without the help
of the District Board and Municipal Commissioners.
. 33263
18992. Would the idea be to leave it to the
discretion of the District Officer in matters where
prompt action was necessary, but in matters which
could wait and in which in the opinion of some of the
leading people it was desirable, a meeting might be
convened ?—I would not bind him to convene an
Advisory Council.
18993. And you would not nominate certain people
as members of an Advisory Council ?—Not at present ;
that would excite expectation and hopes which could
not be fulfilled.
18994. Then would you leave the District Officer to
consult people as he does at present ?—Yes.
18995. If such a Council were formed would it make
district administration a little more popular ?—To a
certain extent, yes.
18996. But you do not want to undertake it now ?—
No.
18997. You say that there are certain villages in
which it is possible to create some sort of a panchayat
and to impose some work upon them at once ?—I hope
there are many such villages.
18998. That depends on the advancement of the
people ?—Yes.
18999. In some places you would find it difficult to
carry out such a scheme ?—Yes.
19000. In places where matters were more advanced
would it be advisable to take that work in hand now
and to organise village panchayats ?—Yes, the Bengal
Government is now taking action in that direction.
19001. (Sir Frederic Lely.) You speak with approval
of the specialisation of departments ; you are not one
of those persons who think that departmentalism is
one of the deteriorating influences of the present day
Government ?—On the whole, no; I think that
departments have at times done harm, but on the
whole departmentalism has not been an evil in Bengal.
19002. You would admit that they represent a
tendency which should be checked ?—It should be very
carefully watched.
19003. The one man who is above departments and
who is also in actual touch with the condition of things
is the Commissioner ?—Yes.
19004. And he also is generally a man of greater
experience than the Head of a Department. There-
fore, would it not be a good thing to give him a certain
amount of power to bring everything into line and to
exercise control over outside departments ?—The
Commissioner in Bengal has much power of this kind.
19005. But this power consists only in the shape of
being able to give an opinion ?—He can bring any
defects to the notice of Government. He sees budgets
and estimates and annual reports.
19006. I am speaking now of education, excise, and
medical work ?—He sees them all; all the education
budgets go to him from the inspector of schools ; there
is no important matter with regard to education upon
which the Commissioner is not consulted and upon
which it is not his duty to express an opinion ; he is
accustomed to visit schools of all kinds, and to interfere
if anything appears to him to be wrong.
19007. Generally, has he any authority other than
purely consultative ?—He has power to object ; he
could not at once deal with a defect because he would
have to write to the Inspector or Director of Public
Instruction with regard to an educational matter ; he
could not pass orders at once correcting anything that
was wrong unless in a case of friction between two
departments, and then probably he would at once pass
an order putting things right, for instance, between a.
District Magistrate and an education authority.
19008. Has he power to enforce his views ?—No, I
would not go so far as to say that.
19009. Has he sufficient power to induce him to take
an interest in such matters as excise and education and
their general effect on the welfare of the people ?—I
think so.
19010. (Chairman.) You say that he has not power*
to enforce his views, but would a strong expression of
his views to any official concerned result generally in
the attitude which he took up being adopted?—It
would practically result in action being suspended, and
the matter being referred to the Government by the
2 A 2
The Hon.
Mr. William
Charles
Macpherson.
29 Jan., 1908