DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0194
The Hon.
Mr. William
Charles
Macpherson.
29 Jan., 1908.
188 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE:
Head of the Department or by the Commissioner
himself ; that is to say, if the Commissioner were in
earnest he would take care that that would be done.
19011. (Sir Frederic Lely.) You say it would
“ practically ” result—do you mean generally it would
result ?—Yes, generally.
19012. Are railway administrative matters of the
utmost importance in Bengal ?—Yes, and the drainage
question is of great importance.
19013. Would it be too much to say that drainage is
even more important than irrigation in Bengal ?—it is
quite within the mark to say that.
19014. Supposing it is alleged that a railway has
blocked the waterway, and that the country has become
waterlogged, and that a village, or more than one
village, has been deprived of its supply, what steps
would be taken to enquire into and remedy it?—It
would first come to the notice of the District Officer,
and he would make representations to the local railway
official, who might, or might not, be sympathetic and
take action ; but if no action were taken, then the
District Officer would represent the state of things to
the Commissioner of the division, who perhaps would
write to a higher railway official.
19015. Has the Commissioner no power to order a
railway company to take action ?—He has no power to
give orders to railway authorities ; he would probably
refer the matter to Government or to the Consulting
Engineers, if the Agent or Manager of a railway would
not take such action as he considered reasonable.
19016. In such an important matter as that ought
not the Commissioner to have power to order an
■enquiry at once ?—I think that the Commissioner of a
division ought to have that power.
19017. But, as a matter of fact, he has none?—He
would have the power to direct the Public Works
Superintending Engineer or the Inspector of Local
Works to make enquiries, but he would have no power
to direct the railway authorities to take any part in
those enquiries. Of course he might order an enquiry
independently of the railway authorities, but that
would be undesirable. Even if an enquiry is held, the
civil officers and the railway authorities might, perhaps,
still be at issue, and then the matter would go to the
Bengal Government, and finally the Bengal Govern-
ment would represent the state of things to the
Government of India, who would send down one of
their Consulting Engineers to the place.
19018. Would all that take place before an enquiry
was even set on foot, so far as the railway authorities
were concerned, unless they were sympathetic ?—Yes.
19019. And meanwhile probably the people would
be dying of malaria and their crops would be ruined ?
Yes.
19020. Has the Railway Board no authority to
intervene in a matter like that and summarily dispose
of it ?—The Railway Board has come into existence
since I was a District Officer, and I do not know how
far they have power to shorten matters.
19021. Should a District Officer have no connection
with Public Works?—Public Works in Bengal means
buildings and probably occasionally a provincial road ;
in Orissa it also means irrigation works.
19022. The Public Works Department, as to works,
is in an entirely isolated position ?—Not entirely ; as
Commissioner of Patna I have been in close touch with
the Superintending Engineer, and files would go from
my office to his and from his office to mine, so that we
have been closely in touch with regard to any important
matters going on ; but the position is perhaps more
isolated than it should be.
19023. Your connection with the Public Works
officials was possibly more in the way of personal
friendship ?—To a great extent one gets over any
defect in official rules by demi-official correspondence.
19024. What means of travelling has an officer in
most of the districts in Bengal, and what means has
he of conveying his kit about?—His kit must go in a
bullock cart except where it can go by train.
19025. Is there any difficulty in getting carts ?—Yes,
it is becoming more difficult.
19026. Has it been found that some gentle coercion
has to be used sometimes to obtain them?—Zes, I
should say a good deal.
19027. Is that felt to be a considerable burden on
the people?—Yes, even when they are paid the full
and proper rates.
19028. Which is sometimes doubtful?—An officer
must give his personal attention to paying for his
transport or the people may not be paid.
19029. On the whole, then, a touring officer is not an
unmitigated blessing to the people ?—He is not.
19030. It is not enough to pass an order that a
District Officer must be away from his house so many
days in the year, but if he is to be of any advantage to
the people, it should be arranged that he should only
live in central camps and avoid small villages ; are
rules of that kind necessary?—The difficulty is not so
acute that we need pass orders that a camping officer
should only go to central camps; that would be a great
discouragement to efficient camping, and I would let an
officer go where he thought proper.
19031. If camping is attended with certain evils
would it not be better to limit the touring to such time
as would bring an officer into contact with every part
of his district once a year ?—That would be desirable.
19032. All persons have not the gift of tongues, but
everyone can learn a language if he takes the trouble ?
Not always so as to be able to speak intelligibly to the
people.
19033. Are some Englishmen as bad as that?—I
knew an officer who was a learned scholar and wrote
grammars of Indian languages, but who at the end of
his service could not converse in such a way that the
village people could understand him.
19034. Beyond requiring a man to pass an examina-
tion, does Government take any measures whatever to
encourage or to urge men to learn the language ?—
Apart from examinations and apart from degrees of
honour, which are examinations, the fact that a man
can speak a language fluently and make a speech if
necessary in it, would weigh to some extent in the
question of appointment to a particular district or
division ; it would be borne in mind that he was a
good linguist.
19035. Would it be so very much out of the ordinary
that the fact could not escape notice ?—I am afraid
it is a little out of the ordinary for a European officer
to be able to make a set speech in Bengali or
Hindustani in this province.
19036. Ordinarily a man would not fail by acquiring
a good knowledge of the language, to get on better
with the Government ?—I think it is recognised that a
man who can speak one or more of the languages of
the province is more useful than a man who cannot.
19037. But is it known to Government that he can ?
•—I think so ; it should be known to the Chief
Secretary.
19038. In the course of 10 years you were employed
in eight districts ?—Yes, that is about right.
19039. Were any transfers made at your own
request ?—I do not think I have ever been transferred
at my own request.
19040. (Chairman.) What is your opinion generally
as to the administration of sub-divisions ; it has been
stated that in order to bring the Government officials
more into contact with the people in Bengal the sub-
divisions should be made smaller, while other people
say it would be better to appoint a subordinate officer
to one or more thanas to act as a go-between between
the Sub-Divisional Officer and the people; which
course would you think most advisable ?—I should
begin by strengthening the sub-divisional administra-
tion. I would have more sub-divisions, and increase
the officers at sub-divisions before making smaller
circles.
19041. Are the railway difficulties to which you have
referred of frequent occurrence ?—It is eight years
since I left district work, but I can remember the time
when all the District Officers in Bihar were dissatisfied
with the work of the railway, and when it was neces-
sary for the Government of India to send its Consulting
Engineer in order to settle a modus vivendi with the
railway authorities.
19042. Was that during a period of rapid railway
construction?—Yes, railway construction was being
pushed forward rapidly at the time.
Mr. William
Charles
Macpherson.
29 Jan., 1908.
188 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE:
Head of the Department or by the Commissioner
himself ; that is to say, if the Commissioner were in
earnest he would take care that that would be done.
19011. (Sir Frederic Lely.) You say it would
“ practically ” result—do you mean generally it would
result ?—Yes, generally.
19012. Are railway administrative matters of the
utmost importance in Bengal ?—Yes, and the drainage
question is of great importance.
19013. Would it be too much to say that drainage is
even more important than irrigation in Bengal ?—it is
quite within the mark to say that.
19014. Supposing it is alleged that a railway has
blocked the waterway, and that the country has become
waterlogged, and that a village, or more than one
village, has been deprived of its supply, what steps
would be taken to enquire into and remedy it?—It
would first come to the notice of the District Officer,
and he would make representations to the local railway
official, who might, or might not, be sympathetic and
take action ; but if no action were taken, then the
District Officer would represent the state of things to
the Commissioner of the division, who perhaps would
write to a higher railway official.
19015. Has the Commissioner no power to order a
railway company to take action ?—He has no power to
give orders to railway authorities ; he would probably
refer the matter to Government or to the Consulting
Engineers, if the Agent or Manager of a railway would
not take such action as he considered reasonable.
19016. In such an important matter as that ought
not the Commissioner to have power to order an
■enquiry at once ?—I think that the Commissioner of a
division ought to have that power.
19017. But, as a matter of fact, he has none?—He
would have the power to direct the Public Works
Superintending Engineer or the Inspector of Local
Works to make enquiries, but he would have no power
to direct the railway authorities to take any part in
those enquiries. Of course he might order an enquiry
independently of the railway authorities, but that
would be undesirable. Even if an enquiry is held, the
civil officers and the railway authorities might, perhaps,
still be at issue, and then the matter would go to the
Bengal Government, and finally the Bengal Govern-
ment would represent the state of things to the
Government of India, who would send down one of
their Consulting Engineers to the place.
19018. Would all that take place before an enquiry
was even set on foot, so far as the railway authorities
were concerned, unless they were sympathetic ?—Yes.
19019. And meanwhile probably the people would
be dying of malaria and their crops would be ruined ?
Yes.
19020. Has the Railway Board no authority to
intervene in a matter like that and summarily dispose
of it ?—The Railway Board has come into existence
since I was a District Officer, and I do not know how
far they have power to shorten matters.
19021. Should a District Officer have no connection
with Public Works?—Public Works in Bengal means
buildings and probably occasionally a provincial road ;
in Orissa it also means irrigation works.
19022. The Public Works Department, as to works,
is in an entirely isolated position ?—Not entirely ; as
Commissioner of Patna I have been in close touch with
the Superintending Engineer, and files would go from
my office to his and from his office to mine, so that we
have been closely in touch with regard to any important
matters going on ; but the position is perhaps more
isolated than it should be.
19023. Your connection with the Public Works
officials was possibly more in the way of personal
friendship ?—To a great extent one gets over any
defect in official rules by demi-official correspondence.
19024. What means of travelling has an officer in
most of the districts in Bengal, and what means has
he of conveying his kit about?—His kit must go in a
bullock cart except where it can go by train.
19025. Is there any difficulty in getting carts ?—Yes,
it is becoming more difficult.
19026. Has it been found that some gentle coercion
has to be used sometimes to obtain them?—Zes, I
should say a good deal.
19027. Is that felt to be a considerable burden on
the people?—Yes, even when they are paid the full
and proper rates.
19028. Which is sometimes doubtful?—An officer
must give his personal attention to paying for his
transport or the people may not be paid.
19029. On the whole, then, a touring officer is not an
unmitigated blessing to the people ?—He is not.
19030. It is not enough to pass an order that a
District Officer must be away from his house so many
days in the year, but if he is to be of any advantage to
the people, it should be arranged that he should only
live in central camps and avoid small villages ; are
rules of that kind necessary?—The difficulty is not so
acute that we need pass orders that a camping officer
should only go to central camps; that would be a great
discouragement to efficient camping, and I would let an
officer go where he thought proper.
19031. If camping is attended with certain evils
would it not be better to limit the touring to such time
as would bring an officer into contact with every part
of his district once a year ?—That would be desirable.
19032. All persons have not the gift of tongues, but
everyone can learn a language if he takes the trouble ?
Not always so as to be able to speak intelligibly to the
people.
19033. Are some Englishmen as bad as that?—I
knew an officer who was a learned scholar and wrote
grammars of Indian languages, but who at the end of
his service could not converse in such a way that the
village people could understand him.
19034. Beyond requiring a man to pass an examina-
tion, does Government take any measures whatever to
encourage or to urge men to learn the language ?—
Apart from examinations and apart from degrees of
honour, which are examinations, the fact that a man
can speak a language fluently and make a speech if
necessary in it, would weigh to some extent in the
question of appointment to a particular district or
division ; it would be borne in mind that he was a
good linguist.
19035. Would it be so very much out of the ordinary
that the fact could not escape notice ?—I am afraid
it is a little out of the ordinary for a European officer
to be able to make a set speech in Bengali or
Hindustani in this province.
19036. Ordinarily a man would not fail by acquiring
a good knowledge of the language, to get on better
with the Government ?—I think it is recognised that a
man who can speak one or more of the languages of
the province is more useful than a man who cannot.
19037. But is it known to Government that he can ?
•—I think so ; it should be known to the Chief
Secretary.
19038. In the course of 10 years you were employed
in eight districts ?—Yes, that is about right.
19039. Were any transfers made at your own
request ?—I do not think I have ever been transferred
at my own request.
19040. (Chairman.) What is your opinion generally
as to the administration of sub-divisions ; it has been
stated that in order to bring the Government officials
more into contact with the people in Bengal the sub-
divisions should be made smaller, while other people
say it would be better to appoint a subordinate officer
to one or more thanas to act as a go-between between
the Sub-Divisional Officer and the people; which
course would you think most advisable ?—I should
begin by strengthening the sub-divisional administra-
tion. I would have more sub-divisions, and increase
the officers at sub-divisions before making smaller
circles.
19041. Are the railway difficulties to which you have
referred of frequent occurrence ?—It is eight years
since I left district work, but I can remember the time
when all the District Officers in Bihar were dissatisfied
with the work of the railway, and when it was neces-
sary for the Government of India to send its Consulting
Engineer in order to settle a modus vivendi with the
railway authorities.
19042. Was that during a period of rapid railway
construction?—Yes, railway construction was being
pushed forward rapidly at the time.