DOI Seite / Zitierlink:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68026#0012
6
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :
Colonel
J. T. IF.
Leslie.
Jan., 1908.
42527. Do you write direct to the Local Government,
or do you write through the Home Department ?—I
generally write through the Home Department ; there
are certain subjects upon which I write to the Secreta-
ries. Cases where I address the Local Government
would be those in which the Local Government them-
selves could give an answer.
42528. Suppose a proposal comes to you from the
Home Department which concerns practically the whole
of India, what is your method ?—Generally speaking I
have got the information in my office records ; if I have
not, I ask the provincial Sanitary Commissioners, or if
necessary the Local Government, or I suggest to the
Home Department that they should themselves get the
information from the Local Government.
42529. As a rule, before you reply to a scheme which
must affect India as a whole, do you try in some way to
get into touch with the opinions held by the Local
Governments ?—Certainly, I would get my information
from the provincial Sanitary Commissioner, but in
certain cases I would not address the Local Govern-
ment at all ; I should suggest to the Home Department
to address the Local Government.
42530. Do you know whether the Home Department
follows your advice ?—Yes, the Home Department
draft a letter and send it through to me to see if it is
exactly what I wanted.
42531. You would not yourself draft a letter upon a
particular question and say to the Home Government
“ Will you forward this letter to the Sanitary Com-
missioner or to the provincial Government ? ”—No.
but the Home Department might say “ Will you
kindly draft this letter yourself? ’
42532. It would not be within your right to send a
draft letter through the Home Department on your
own initiative ?—No ; I might write a memorandum
and request them to send it, but it would be entirely
for them to say whether they would send it or not.
42533. When a proposal is made by a Local Govern-
ment and is referred to you for your advice, what is
your procedure ?—I go on the facts ; I may consult
the local Sanitary Engineer, or other’ officers.
42534. Do you in practice ever consult the local
Sanitary Engineer ?—Certainly.
42535. Would you say “ I have such and such ideas,
but there may be some circumstances in your province
which require their modification ” ?—Certainly, I
generally know that because I am in fairly close com-
munication with them all over northern India with
regard to all these matters ; in southern India this is
not so quite to the same extent because the develop-
ment has been different. So far as the Medical
Department is concerned they were entirely indepen-
dent before 1895 ; they had their own Military Medical
Department, etc. The Indian Medical Service has
since been changed entirely ; it is one Service now ; it
is not presidencial at all.
42536. Have the provincial Governments a very fail-
knowledge before you advise the Home Department
of what it is you are going to suggest ?—I should
think so, but it depends. If I make a suggestion my-
self, it is upon something I have discussed with the
local people. If a thing comes up from the Local
Government they may, or may not, know what I have
to say upon it. A simple question might come up
whether such and such a pay was to be given to an
officer attached to the department; I might advise that
it should be so much, not with regard to the Govern-
ment at all, but with regard to the pay of similar
appointments elsewhere ; for instance, Bombay might
ask me as to the proper pay of an appointment, and I
should be able to advise them judging by a similar
appointment in Calcutta. If men have to go to the
same duties it is just as well to have the pay (within
limits) on the same basis.
42537. Have you reason to believe that the Local
Governments are sufficiently consulted ?—I think they
are.
42538. From their point of view or from yours ?—
From their point of view, certainly.
42539. You recently submitted a scheme for the
reorganization of the Sanitary Department throughout
the country ; upon what materials did you proceed ?—
I consulted everybody with experience of sanitary
administration I could come across in the country.
42540. Did you produce a scheme which would apply
uniformly throughout the country ?—Not absolutely
uniformly, but on the same lines.
42541. So nearly uniformly that it would be difficult
to make a difference ?—The pay for instance might be
different, but the general system is on the same lines
throughout the country.
42542. Were the conditions of service different?—
The conditions of service might be very different. I
did not go into details ; the Home Department asked
the Local Government for details.
42543. In a question of that sort, in a scheme which
applies to the whole country, should there be uni-
formity of scales of pay and conditions of service ?—■
There cannot be absolute uniformity. The conditions
are so different that it is impossible to give the same
pay or the same terms of service.
42544. Is that the view taken by the Home Depart-
ment ?—I think that is the view taken by the Home
Department.
42545. You say that one of your functions, which is
essentially advisory, is the review of reports by experts
of provincial Governments. Are those reports lengthy
reports as a rule ?—Yes, fairly lengthy.
42546. Do you w-rite a lengthy review of the whole
of these reports ?—Yes. The Jail Review is about 20
or 22 pages.
42547. Do you issue many of these reports in the
course of the year ?—Not very many. As to the sani-
tary reports, we used to write a resolution on each ;
I used to prepare the notes for the resolution. We
have stopped that recently, because it was not doing
much good. Instead of doing that I write to the
Sanitary Commissioner pointing out discrepancies, and
asking him to explain them. If there is nothing in
the note calling for any comment, I explain that to
the Home Department.
42548. Could that be extended ?—I should be glad
to extend it ; for instance, the Prisons Report is very
useful.
42549. How long after the facts occur do you issue
your review of the Prisons Report ?—About ten
months after the end of the year. I get the last
report about August, and I get the review in to the
Home Department by October of the same year. The
Sanitary Report is officially due on the 30th November,
eleven months after the end of the year to which it
refers.
42550. Is that not too late for your review to be of
substantial benefit ?—No.
42551. Notwithstanding its out-of-dateness, you
think it is essential to publish it ?—Certainly ; it is
more up to date than the English reports or the
German reports are ; it is a year younger than similar
German reports.
42552. You say that every department of the Gov-
ernment of India may refer questions to you ; do.
Local Governments consult you quite freely ?—They
may. Some of them do very freely.
42553. The majority of them ?—No, I cannot say
the majority.
42554. Why is that ?—With regard to the northern
Governments, possibly, because I am personally known
to the Lieutenant Governors.
42555. The amount of consultation by you with the
provincial Governments depends upon their personal
experience of you ?—I think it probably does.
42556. Do you tour in Madras or Bombay ?—I have
been in Madras, and I go to Bombay every year.
42557. Do those Governments consult you ?—They
have done so, but very sparingly.
42558. May any of the officers in the provincial
Governments write to you ?—Yes.
42559. Do they do so ?—Yes.
42560. You have nothing to do with their adminis-
trative machinery?—Nothing whatever.
42561. You recommend officers for selection for the
Bacteriological Department—is that an Imperial
Department?—Yes. It is only newly constituted, and
so far it is an Imperial Department ; I hope it will be-
an Imperial Department.
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :
Colonel
J. T. IF.
Leslie.
Jan., 1908.
42527. Do you write direct to the Local Government,
or do you write through the Home Department ?—I
generally write through the Home Department ; there
are certain subjects upon which I write to the Secreta-
ries. Cases where I address the Local Government
would be those in which the Local Government them-
selves could give an answer.
42528. Suppose a proposal comes to you from the
Home Department which concerns practically the whole
of India, what is your method ?—Generally speaking I
have got the information in my office records ; if I have
not, I ask the provincial Sanitary Commissioners, or if
necessary the Local Government, or I suggest to the
Home Department that they should themselves get the
information from the Local Government.
42529. As a rule, before you reply to a scheme which
must affect India as a whole, do you try in some way to
get into touch with the opinions held by the Local
Governments ?—Certainly, I would get my information
from the provincial Sanitary Commissioner, but in
certain cases I would not address the Local Govern-
ment at all ; I should suggest to the Home Department
to address the Local Government.
42530. Do you know whether the Home Department
follows your advice ?—Yes, the Home Department
draft a letter and send it through to me to see if it is
exactly what I wanted.
42531. You would not yourself draft a letter upon a
particular question and say to the Home Government
“ Will you forward this letter to the Sanitary Com-
missioner or to the provincial Government ? ”—No.
but the Home Department might say “ Will you
kindly draft this letter yourself? ’
42532. It would not be within your right to send a
draft letter through the Home Department on your
own initiative ?—No ; I might write a memorandum
and request them to send it, but it would be entirely
for them to say whether they would send it or not.
42533. When a proposal is made by a Local Govern-
ment and is referred to you for your advice, what is
your procedure ?—I go on the facts ; I may consult
the local Sanitary Engineer, or other’ officers.
42534. Do you in practice ever consult the local
Sanitary Engineer ?—Certainly.
42535. Would you say “ I have such and such ideas,
but there may be some circumstances in your province
which require their modification ” ?—Certainly, I
generally know that because I am in fairly close com-
munication with them all over northern India with
regard to all these matters ; in southern India this is
not so quite to the same extent because the develop-
ment has been different. So far as the Medical
Department is concerned they were entirely indepen-
dent before 1895 ; they had their own Military Medical
Department, etc. The Indian Medical Service has
since been changed entirely ; it is one Service now ; it
is not presidencial at all.
42536. Have the provincial Governments a very fail-
knowledge before you advise the Home Department
of what it is you are going to suggest ?—I should
think so, but it depends. If I make a suggestion my-
self, it is upon something I have discussed with the
local people. If a thing comes up from the Local
Government they may, or may not, know what I have
to say upon it. A simple question might come up
whether such and such a pay was to be given to an
officer attached to the department; I might advise that
it should be so much, not with regard to the Govern-
ment at all, but with regard to the pay of similar
appointments elsewhere ; for instance, Bombay might
ask me as to the proper pay of an appointment, and I
should be able to advise them judging by a similar
appointment in Calcutta. If men have to go to the
same duties it is just as well to have the pay (within
limits) on the same basis.
42537. Have you reason to believe that the Local
Governments are sufficiently consulted ?—I think they
are.
42538. From their point of view or from yours ?—
From their point of view, certainly.
42539. You recently submitted a scheme for the
reorganization of the Sanitary Department throughout
the country ; upon what materials did you proceed ?—
I consulted everybody with experience of sanitary
administration I could come across in the country.
42540. Did you produce a scheme which would apply
uniformly throughout the country ?—Not absolutely
uniformly, but on the same lines.
42541. So nearly uniformly that it would be difficult
to make a difference ?—The pay for instance might be
different, but the general system is on the same lines
throughout the country.
42542. Were the conditions of service different?—
The conditions of service might be very different. I
did not go into details ; the Home Department asked
the Local Government for details.
42543. In a question of that sort, in a scheme which
applies to the whole country, should there be uni-
formity of scales of pay and conditions of service ?—■
There cannot be absolute uniformity. The conditions
are so different that it is impossible to give the same
pay or the same terms of service.
42544. Is that the view taken by the Home Depart-
ment ?—I think that is the view taken by the Home
Department.
42545. You say that one of your functions, which is
essentially advisory, is the review of reports by experts
of provincial Governments. Are those reports lengthy
reports as a rule ?—Yes, fairly lengthy.
42546. Do you w-rite a lengthy review of the whole
of these reports ?—Yes. The Jail Review is about 20
or 22 pages.
42547. Do you issue many of these reports in the
course of the year ?—Not very many. As to the sani-
tary reports, we used to write a resolution on each ;
I used to prepare the notes for the resolution. We
have stopped that recently, because it was not doing
much good. Instead of doing that I write to the
Sanitary Commissioner pointing out discrepancies, and
asking him to explain them. If there is nothing in
the note calling for any comment, I explain that to
the Home Department.
42548. Could that be extended ?—I should be glad
to extend it ; for instance, the Prisons Report is very
useful.
42549. How long after the facts occur do you issue
your review of the Prisons Report ?—About ten
months after the end of the year. I get the last
report about August, and I get the review in to the
Home Department by October of the same year. The
Sanitary Report is officially due on the 30th November,
eleven months after the end of the year to which it
refers.
42550. Is that not too late for your review to be of
substantial benefit ?—No.
42551. Notwithstanding its out-of-dateness, you
think it is essential to publish it ?—Certainly ; it is
more up to date than the English reports or the
German reports are ; it is a year younger than similar
German reports.
42552. You say that every department of the Gov-
ernment of India may refer questions to you ; do.
Local Governments consult you quite freely ?—They
may. Some of them do very freely.
42553. The majority of them ?—No, I cannot say
the majority.
42554. Why is that ?—With regard to the northern
Governments, possibly, because I am personally known
to the Lieutenant Governors.
42555. The amount of consultation by you with the
provincial Governments depends upon their personal
experience of you ?—I think it probably does.
42556. Do you tour in Madras or Bombay ?—I have
been in Madras, and I go to Bombay every year.
42557. Do those Governments consult you ?—They
have done so, but very sparingly.
42558. May any of the officers in the provincial
Governments write to you ?—Yes.
42559. Do they do so ?—Yes.
42560. You have nothing to do with their adminis-
trative machinery?—Nothing whatever.
42561. You recommend officers for selection for the
Bacteriological Department—is that an Imperial
Department?—Yes. It is only newly constituted, and
so far it is an Imperial Department ; I hope it will be-
an Imperial Department.