Minutes of evidence taken before the Royal Commission upon Decentralization in Bengal of witnesses serving directly under the Government of India, volume 10 ([London?]: [House of Commons?], 1908)

ROYAL COMMISSION UPON DECENTRALIZATION.

Medical subordinates, building hospitals, and expen-
diture in the Medical Department which has to come
to the Government of India.
43097. Do you look upon yourself principally, then,
as the Director of this Medical Service and not as an
expert adviser to the Government of India ?—I am
Director of the Indian Medical Service, certainly, but
I am also the adviser of the Government of India in
all medical matters. I administer the Medical Stores
Department directly, and I have some little adminis-
tration over military students in the colleges and
medical schools ; that is the only direct administration
that I have; the X-rays Institute is also directly
under me. For the rest, I am an adviser of the
Government of India in all matters affecting the
-Service or in any medical matter which the Govern-
ment of India think they want advice about.
43098. You tell us that the services of a number of
Assistant Surgeons are lent to Municipal and Local
Boards; have you any control over them during
the period that they are so lent ?—No ; the Local
Government is entirely responsible.
43099. Then with regard to these independent Civil
Surgeons, are they under your control in any way ?—
A certain number of the Civil Surgeoncies in a
province are given to Assistant Surgeons, not to officers
in the Indian Medical Service at all, but to Assistant
Surgeons, who are either natives or local Europeans.
43100. They are either Civil Assistant Surgeons or
Civil Hospital Assistants ?—Civil Hospital Assistants
are not made Civil Surgeons ; there are a certain
number of appointments reserved for the Civil Assis-
tant Surgeons.
43101. Have you any relations with the provincial
Governments in respect to these people ?—Practically
none.
43102. Is there any caveat when you say “ practi-
cally ” ?—I examine them, that is all ; I do sometimes
help them to go from one province to another.
43103. We had some evidence in Madras to the
effect that the Surgeon-General there was practically
excluded from selection to the Director-Generalship ;
is that so ?—Yes ; because he is on the Madras list.
43104. Are there separate Madras and Bombay lists ?
—-Yes ; it is an old separation, but the remnant of it
still remains. The Director-General used to be the
Surgeon-General in Bengal ; he is now called the
Director-General.
43105. Is the Director-General chosen from the
Chief Medical Officer in one of the other Govern-
ments?—Not necessarily; they may go down below
them.
43106. Upon the selected list ?—Yes ; he generally
is on that list.
43107. Is there any proposal to abolish this distinc-
tion ?—It will abolish itself when all the old Madras
list men have died out.
43108. You are responsible for the Service being
maintained at the sanctioned strength. Do the Local
Governments make representations to you as to their
own requirements ?—No ; because we do not recruit
for civil duties ; it is recruited merely as a military
Service.
43109. Are you responsible for the selection of
officers in the administrative grades?—I advise the
Military Supply Department who appoints them.
43110. Have the officers been all their time in the
employ of the provincial Government ?—Nobody is
over all his time ; he may have been for some years ;
the Military Supply Department has to promote him.
43111. Is that merely a formal Gazette notice, or is
it a real selection ?—A real selection, certainly.
43112. Do you consult the Home Department ?—I
consult the Home Department if he is in civil employ,
and they consult the Local Government.
43113. As a matter of course, do they consult the
provincial Government ?—No; I think only when
there is some doubt; if the Local Government has
■ expressed favourable views, and consider that the men
ought to be promoted, there is no necessity to con-
sult them ; but if the man is going to be objected to,
they are always consulted.
43114. When an officer is promoted to the adminis-
trative list, does he withdraw from promotion in the

Sutgeon-
General
G. Somford.
1 Feb., 1908.
—He very often goes somewhere else ; say a man has --
served in Madras, when he is promoted he may become
an Administrative Medical Officer and go to Rawal-
pindi or anywhere. He may revert to military, or he
may get a civil appointment.
43116. Is the provincial Government hampered in
its senior civil appointments by the fact that the selec-
tion to the administrative list is in the hands of the
Military Supply Department ?—I do not think that
they are, practically, because we take care that they
should not be. They are so far hampered that the
Madras Government cannot take any man who is in
Madras ; it must be a man who is senior in the Service
and has been selected for promotion to the higher
grade.
43117. But subject to that it can choose ?—It can
always ask ; it makes the proposal.
43118. Are those proposals generally accepted? —
Almost always ; I only know one instance where a
proposal was not accepted.
43119. Are officers often rejected for the adminis-
trative list ?—Very frequently.
43120. What happens to them ?—They retire when
they are 55.
43121. At what sort of age are they generally
selected or rejected ?—Very nearly 55 ; many have to
retire at 55 before they go up for promotion at all.
43122. Has it ever been suggested to you by the pro-
vincial Governments that there are men in their
employ with whose services they would adminis-
tratively like to dispense ?—Yes, certainly.
43123. Do you manage to get rid of them before
they reach the age of 55 ?—Sometimes they are made to
retire ; that is very seldom done ; there are regular rules
about it ; what the Local Government generally does
when they do not like a man is to suggest that he
should be sent back to military employment. That is
an easy way from their point of view of getting rid
of a man. The Military Department naturally says :
“ We do not want this man ; you have had him for
twenty years, and now he has deteriorated, we do not
want him.”
43124. Then what happens ? — The Provincial
Government has to keep him until he has earned a
pension.
43125. Would it be desirable to retire such a man?
—It might be unfair in many cases.
43126. Would it be desirable from the point of
view of the Service ?—From the point of view of the
Service it would be very detrimental, because we
should all feel that the man had been treated unjustly.
43127. Why ?—A man has done good service for
twenty years ; then he begins to get somewhat stupid ;
it is only fair to let him go on till he can get a
pension.
43128. That is your view of the case ?—It would be
the view of the whole Service, I am sure.
43129. You would disregard the necessities of the
Service?—There has never been a case where there
was urgent necessity for getting rid of a man ; if
there were such a case there is no doubt we should get
rid of him at once.
43130. Have you in practice been able to get rid of
a man at once?—The other day a Local Government
came up and said they wanted to get rid of a man ;
we did not want to give any leave in that province
because they had already more than their number of
officers on leave. We said : “ All right, you can give
him leave on the understanding that he will retire at
the end of it.” It was done the very next day.
43131. How long was the leave for?—Perhaps six
months. That probably enabled him to qualify for
his pension ; it was some sort of moral delinquency
that was alleged against him.
43132. You say you assist the Home Department in
regard to the members of the provincial establishments
of Civil Assistant Surgeons and Hospital Assistants ;
what does the Director-General know about them ?-r-

provincein which he has been serving ?—He is selected
and remains where he is ; when he is promoted he may
go anywhere.
43115. And does, as a matter of fact, go in that way ?