Minutes of evidence taken before the Royal Commission upon Decentralization in Bengal of witnesses serving directly under the Government of India, volume 10 ([London?]: [House of Commons?], 1908)

Mr. B.
Robertson.
Apr., 1908.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :

weighed them, were not found tenable. I am not
sure that the private telephone question has not
been recently considered, but at present the rules
are very rigid and very stringent
43904. (Sir Steyning Edgerley.) You have recently
allowed the use of ordinary postage stamps for
telegraph purposes ; will that effect a considerable
saving in expense and trouble?—It will not save
much in the way of expense ; it will be a saving
in trouble.
43905. A saving in the work of the department
and in the district offices?—Yes, and that to a
certain extent also will save expense.
43906. And a certain amount of saving in the
cost of stamps ?—That will Ibe small.
43907. Has it ever Ibeen considered whether the
ordinary stamps could not (be used for service
postage purposes—I mean the ordinary postage
stamps coupled with envelopes stamped O. H. M. S. ?
—I am not aware of that.
43908. The safeguard in the matter of stamps
lies in the O. H. M. S. on the envelope and the
frank—the signature of the officer who uses it?—■
Yes.
43909. Is not the Post Office rule which requires,
besides the signature, the official designation of the
person sending it really useless in fixing respon-
sibility in the case of a suspected cover?—I could
not really say.
43910. With your name once on the cover it
does not matter whether your designation is there
or not for the purpose of tracing responsibility?—
Not perhaps if my name could be read, but it is
not always legible.
43911. The person who receives the letter from
you could probably say whose the signature was?
—Yes.
43912. Have you ever made enquiry from Govern-
ment printing presses as to the expenditure caused
by the rule which requires the official designation
to be stated?—No. I do not think the matter has
been discussed.
43913. Does not the maintenance of a supply of
service stamps in all the public treasuries and
other offices cause a big separate register to be
kept?—There is a separate register kept.
43914. Do you know of any reason why the ordi-
nary stamps could not cover the ground ?—The only
reason is that, if it is stolen, the 0. H. M. S. stamp
cannot be used for private correspondence without
arousing suspicion, whereas the ordinary stamp
can.
43915. With regard to the question of customs,
the Chairman of the Chamber of Commerce at
Madras pressed for further imperialization, especi-
ally in the matter of appeals ; an officer of great
experience in Bombay has sent us a memorandum
in which he presses strongly for further co-ordi-
nation. He says “ No effective steps have been
taken, so far as I am aware, to secure uniformity
of practice at the principal ports of India, and
some sort of co-ordination is urgently needed, and
also more direct control in matters of principle
and law.” Is it the case that the decision not to
have an Imperial Officer for the hearing of appeals
is the result of the decision of the Secretary of
State, or is it the result of the decision of the
Government of India?—As far as I understand
there has been no absolute decision about that yet.
43916. If you had appeals from out-ports coming
to the Chief Customs Officer of the main port, and
appeals from the Chief Customs Officer at the
main port coming to one central appellate autho-
rity, would that not co-ordinate practice? — It
would help to co-ordinate practice.
43917. And there is some little evidence that
that is very necessary?—So far as my knowledge
goes of the present and past year, we have had no
actual complaints or suggestions to that effect from
commercial bodies.
43918. So that the suggestion of the Madras
Chamber of Commerce practically stands alone?—
Yes, so far as I am aware.
43919. Are there not two ways of securing uni-
formity ; one is to take up a proposition and
examine it, and another is to say “ You are the

only Local Government that has mooted this matter
and we do not think it is necessary to examine it
at all.” Which course does your department
usually follow?—We usually consider every sug-
gestion, and if it is a good one we ask the other
Local Governments whether they agree to adopt
it.
43920. You do examine the suggestion?—We
examine it and send it round.
43921. (Chairman.) What has been your experi-
ence before you were appointed Secretary of this
department?—'Before I was appointed here I was
a Deputy Commissioner in the 'Central Provinces ;
I was then Chief Secretary in the Central Provinces
Administration for four years, and I was on special
duty under the Government of India on two
occasions.
43922. For what purpose? — One was in con-
nection with famine relief and the other was in
connection with emigration to the Assam tea-
gardens.
43923. Do you consider the Department of Com-
merce and Industry rather a special department?
•—I would call it a special department.
43924. You tell us that you ought not to put at
the head of the Customs Department a member of
the Indian Civil Service, however able, who has had
no previous training in that kind of work, but as
I understand at the head of the Department of
Commerce and Industry, both in the case of the
Member and the Secretary, they have had no special
training in either commerce or industry?—It may
be correct to say so. I have personally had special
experience in several of the particular subjects
which arise in this department ; with regard to
the mining rules, for instance, I have had special
experience, and also with regard to certain other
subjects.
43925. In connection with mining you have had
experience as what?—As Chief Secretary in the
Central Provinces for four years, I dealt with all
the mining cases that came up in that province,
which was at that time perhaps the most go-ahead
province in India in the matter of mining.
43926. Then you tell us that there has not been
very much increase in the matter of returns, but
one of the Local Governments told us the other
day that there had been a great demand for
opinions. Has there been an increased output of
these enquiries for opinions as against the demand
for returns?—I should not say that there has been
an increase in such enquiries for opinions ; you
must always have such enquiries. An important
point, say, with reference to the administration
of a particular Act, is raised by a Local Govern-
ment who desire to introduce some important
reform ; in such a case it is absolutely necessary
for the Government of India, who are consulted
and asked to decide, to take the opinions of the
other Local Governments. So long as important
matters of reform are raised by Local Governments
and sent up to the Government of India, so long
it will be necessary for the Government of India
to send the suggestions round for the opinions of
other Local Governments. These do not in all
cases originate with the Government of India ; it
would be very difficult to say to what extent the
proposals originate with the Government of India
<?r with some Local Government.
43927. With regard to these opinions, has the
enquiry about them increased in number in late
years ?—I should not say that it has ; in the last
two years the number of these opinions has un-
doubtedly been less than they were in the previous
five years.
43928. When you send round for these opinions,
does your department send round a general circu-
lar, or does it discriminate between the Local
Governments and the Local Administrations which
are in a position to have an opinion?—Ordinarily
the opinion is asked for by a general circular ;
the suggestion, which has been made by another
Local Government or perhaps is originated by the
Government of India itself, is put in a circular
and the reasons for it are set forth as clearly as
possible, and the other Local Governments and