DOI Seite / Zitierlink:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68026#0086
80 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :
(5) that if there are any pure non-agriculturists,
the thathameda paid by them will be retained
unaltered ;
(c) that if there are any pure agriculturists, no
thathameda will be assessed on their incomes ;
(d) that the assessees of a mixed class, i.e.., men
whose income is partly agricultural and partly
not, are examined as to the proportion repre-
sented by each of those two sources in their
income ; and
(e) that the total thathameda hitherto paid by the
assessees of a mixed class may be distributed
in this proportion between two heads, agricul-
tural and non-agricultural, the first to be
discarded and the second retained.
44052s. Apart from settlement matters, do the
Burma Land Revenue Acts and Regulations impose
restrictions on the Provincial Governments which
might be relaxed ?—I think there are certain restric-
tions on the Local Government in the Burma Land
Revenue Acts and Rules which might be abolished ;
among them are the following :—
(1) Section GO of the Lower Burma Land and
Revenue Act, 1876.
I think that it is unnecessary that rules made by
the Local Government under the Act should be
sanctioned by the Governor General in Council. It
would suffice if the power to make rules were subject
to the control of the Governor General in Council.
(2) Rule 33 of the Lower Burma Land and
Revenue Rules, and Rule 53 of the Upper
Burma Land and Revenue Rules.
I think that the Local Government might have
power to grant land free of land revenue for religious
or public purposes up to a limit of Rs. 500 without
reference to the Government of India.
(3) Section 26 (2) of the Upper Burma Land and
Revenue Regulations.
I think that rules framed under this section should
be made by the Local Government, subject to the
control of the Governor General in Council.
(4) Section 27 (2) of the Upper Burma Land and
Revenue Regulations.
I think rules framed under this section might be
made by the Local Government, subject to the con-
trol of the Governor General in Council, instead of
with the previous sanction of the Governor General in
Council, as at present.
(5) Section 49 of the Upper Burma Land and
Revenue Regulations.
I think the previous sanction of the Governor
General in Council might be dispensed with in regard
to the framing of the rules for the establishment
to be maintained for the service and execution of
processes in Upper Burma.
44053*. You have been furnished with schedules or
memoranda showing the proposals made by certain
Provincial Governments in regard to the relaxation of
specific restrictions now imposed upon them by law, by
rules having the force of Jaw, by Imperial Codes (such
as the Civil Service Regulations), or by executive in-
structions which they desire to have relaxed. Would
you object, so far as your department is affected, to
any of such proposals (other than those which have
been covered by answers to the previous questions),
and, if so, on what grounds ? Can you suggest similar
relaxation in any other matters ?—I have examined the
schedules showing the proposals made by certain pro-
vincial Governments in regard to the relaxation of
specific restrictions now imposed upon them by law, by
rules having the force of law, by Imperial Codes or by
executive instructions of the Government of India.
So far as my Department is concerned, I object to the
proposals detailed below. It must not be assumed
that I approve of all the other proposals. I see no prime),
facie, objection to the proposals to which I do not
specifically refer, but I have been unable in the time
at my disposal to go into them so fully as to be certain
that no reasonable objections might be brought for-
ward.
The Bombay Government desire to be allowed to
determine the total limit up to which advances may be
made to Co-operative Credit Societies. The question
of the best methods of promoting Co - operative
Credit Societies has scarcely got beyond the experi-
mental stage and requires to be closely watched. With
Local Governments there is the danger of one strong
officer getting the whole system on to wrong lines and
doing harm which it would take many years to undo,
and it seems to me desirable that the Government of
India, which has the experience of all 1 ndia to guide
it, should be able, if necessary, to put on the brake.
Co-operative Credit Societies will not be on a sound
footing till they can attract local capital on business
terms, and Government advances on too liberal a scale
might prevent recourse being had to local capitalists.
The Bombay Government also desire to be em-
powered to grant agricultural scholarships from pro-
vincial revenues, without reference to the Government
of India, to students proceeding to England. It would
be inconsistent with the policy of this Government if
students were encouraged to leave India for their
agricultural training, and if in any particular case
there are strong reasons for sending an Indian student
out of the country a reference to the Government of
India seems desirable.
Turning now to the more difficult question of the
proposals contained in the memoranda, I will notice
first the suggestion of the Bombay Government.
That Government proposes that the functions of
Government be brought under two heads, namely,
“ Imperial functions for the Central Government” and
“ functions pertaining entirely to the Local Govern-
ment.’’ The Local Government should as regards “func-
tions pertaining entirely to the Local Government” be
subject to control not exceeding that exercised by the
Secretary of State over the Government of India. I am
not sure of the exact meaning of this proposal as
there are no precise and fixed limits to the inter-
ference of the Secretary of State with the Government
of India, any more than there are definite and well
understood principles by which the Government of
India is limited -when exercising its control over Local
Governments.
My Department deals with the following matters,
which the Bombay Government propose it should
control:—
Forests.
Land Revenue.
Scientific and Minor Departments (excluding
meteorology).
As regards Forests, the Bombay Government have
complete administrative control except as regards dis-
forestation. So far as Land Revenue is concerned, it
does not appear that the Bombay Government’s pro-
posal would lead to any alteration in the present con-
dition of things. If the effect of the proposal would
be to prevent any control over the Government of
Bombay by the Government of India, there appear to
be strong objections to accepting it. Important
changes have been made in the Bombay revenue
system of late years, largely at the instance of the
Government of India. Settlements of land revenue
are no longer left to Survey Officers, the system of
granting suspensions and remissions has been put on a
better footing, and a record-of-rights is now prepared
of which the advantages are, I understand, appreciated
by the Bombay Government. These changes are all
largely due to pressure from the Government of India.
The head “ Scientific and Minor Departments ” in-
cludes the Survey and Agricultural Departments.
Cadastral and local surveys are now everywhere carried
out by Local Governments. The work of the Survey
of India for the next 20 or 30 years will be confined to .
the revision of the topographical survey and the com-
pilation of new up-to-date maps of the whole country.
This is work which must be carried out on uniform
lines, and it can be most efficiently and economically
dealt with by an Imperial Department. I think,
therefore, that in present conditions the Survey of
India Department must remain directly under the
control of the Government of India.
Each local Government should be allowed a very
free hand as to the manner in which its local Agri-
cultural Department should bo employed, but the
cadre is so small that the Government of India must
have some voice in deciding where experts are to be
employed belonging to the Imperial Service. I may
note that the Secretary of State has laid great stress
on the power of transfer being reserved to the
Government of India. It is also necessary that the
Government of India should continue to control
the Pusa College, an Imperial College which is to
train students from all parts of India for research
Mr. It. ir.
Carlyle.
4 Apr., 1908.
(5) that if there are any pure non-agriculturists,
the thathameda paid by them will be retained
unaltered ;
(c) that if there are any pure agriculturists, no
thathameda will be assessed on their incomes ;
(d) that the assessees of a mixed class, i.e.., men
whose income is partly agricultural and partly
not, are examined as to the proportion repre-
sented by each of those two sources in their
income ; and
(e) that the total thathameda hitherto paid by the
assessees of a mixed class may be distributed
in this proportion between two heads, agricul-
tural and non-agricultural, the first to be
discarded and the second retained.
44052s. Apart from settlement matters, do the
Burma Land Revenue Acts and Regulations impose
restrictions on the Provincial Governments which
might be relaxed ?—I think there are certain restric-
tions on the Local Government in the Burma Land
Revenue Acts and Rules which might be abolished ;
among them are the following :—
(1) Section GO of the Lower Burma Land and
Revenue Act, 1876.
I think that it is unnecessary that rules made by
the Local Government under the Act should be
sanctioned by the Governor General in Council. It
would suffice if the power to make rules were subject
to the control of the Governor General in Council.
(2) Rule 33 of the Lower Burma Land and
Revenue Rules, and Rule 53 of the Upper
Burma Land and Revenue Rules.
I think that the Local Government might have
power to grant land free of land revenue for religious
or public purposes up to a limit of Rs. 500 without
reference to the Government of India.
(3) Section 26 (2) of the Upper Burma Land and
Revenue Regulations.
I think that rules framed under this section should
be made by the Local Government, subject to the
control of the Governor General in Council.
(4) Section 27 (2) of the Upper Burma Land and
Revenue Regulations.
I think rules framed under this section might be
made by the Local Government, subject to the con-
trol of the Governor General in Council, instead of
with the previous sanction of the Governor General in
Council, as at present.
(5) Section 49 of the Upper Burma Land and
Revenue Regulations.
I think the previous sanction of the Governor
General in Council might be dispensed with in regard
to the framing of the rules for the establishment
to be maintained for the service and execution of
processes in Upper Burma.
44053*. You have been furnished with schedules or
memoranda showing the proposals made by certain
Provincial Governments in regard to the relaxation of
specific restrictions now imposed upon them by law, by
rules having the force of Jaw, by Imperial Codes (such
as the Civil Service Regulations), or by executive in-
structions which they desire to have relaxed. Would
you object, so far as your department is affected, to
any of such proposals (other than those which have
been covered by answers to the previous questions),
and, if so, on what grounds ? Can you suggest similar
relaxation in any other matters ?—I have examined the
schedules showing the proposals made by certain pro-
vincial Governments in regard to the relaxation of
specific restrictions now imposed upon them by law, by
rules having the force of law, by Imperial Codes or by
executive instructions of the Government of India.
So far as my Department is concerned, I object to the
proposals detailed below. It must not be assumed
that I approve of all the other proposals. I see no prime),
facie, objection to the proposals to which I do not
specifically refer, but I have been unable in the time
at my disposal to go into them so fully as to be certain
that no reasonable objections might be brought for-
ward.
The Bombay Government desire to be allowed to
determine the total limit up to which advances may be
made to Co-operative Credit Societies. The question
of the best methods of promoting Co - operative
Credit Societies has scarcely got beyond the experi-
mental stage and requires to be closely watched. With
Local Governments there is the danger of one strong
officer getting the whole system on to wrong lines and
doing harm which it would take many years to undo,
and it seems to me desirable that the Government of
India, which has the experience of all 1 ndia to guide
it, should be able, if necessary, to put on the brake.
Co-operative Credit Societies will not be on a sound
footing till they can attract local capital on business
terms, and Government advances on too liberal a scale
might prevent recourse being had to local capitalists.
The Bombay Government also desire to be em-
powered to grant agricultural scholarships from pro-
vincial revenues, without reference to the Government
of India, to students proceeding to England. It would
be inconsistent with the policy of this Government if
students were encouraged to leave India for their
agricultural training, and if in any particular case
there are strong reasons for sending an Indian student
out of the country a reference to the Government of
India seems desirable.
Turning now to the more difficult question of the
proposals contained in the memoranda, I will notice
first the suggestion of the Bombay Government.
That Government proposes that the functions of
Government be brought under two heads, namely,
“ Imperial functions for the Central Government” and
“ functions pertaining entirely to the Local Govern-
ment.’’ The Local Government should as regards “func-
tions pertaining entirely to the Local Government” be
subject to control not exceeding that exercised by the
Secretary of State over the Government of India. I am
not sure of the exact meaning of this proposal as
there are no precise and fixed limits to the inter-
ference of the Secretary of State with the Government
of India, any more than there are definite and well
understood principles by which the Government of
India is limited -when exercising its control over Local
Governments.
My Department deals with the following matters,
which the Bombay Government propose it should
control:—
Forests.
Land Revenue.
Scientific and Minor Departments (excluding
meteorology).
As regards Forests, the Bombay Government have
complete administrative control except as regards dis-
forestation. So far as Land Revenue is concerned, it
does not appear that the Bombay Government’s pro-
posal would lead to any alteration in the present con-
dition of things. If the effect of the proposal would
be to prevent any control over the Government of
Bombay by the Government of India, there appear to
be strong objections to accepting it. Important
changes have been made in the Bombay revenue
system of late years, largely at the instance of the
Government of India. Settlements of land revenue
are no longer left to Survey Officers, the system of
granting suspensions and remissions has been put on a
better footing, and a record-of-rights is now prepared
of which the advantages are, I understand, appreciated
by the Bombay Government. These changes are all
largely due to pressure from the Government of India.
The head “ Scientific and Minor Departments ” in-
cludes the Survey and Agricultural Departments.
Cadastral and local surveys are now everywhere carried
out by Local Governments. The work of the Survey
of India for the next 20 or 30 years will be confined to .
the revision of the topographical survey and the com-
pilation of new up-to-date maps of the whole country.
This is work which must be carried out on uniform
lines, and it can be most efficiently and economically
dealt with by an Imperial Department. I think,
therefore, that in present conditions the Survey of
India Department must remain directly under the
control of the Government of India.
Each local Government should be allowed a very
free hand as to the manner in which its local Agri-
cultural Department should bo employed, but the
cadre is so small that the Government of India must
have some voice in deciding where experts are to be
employed belonging to the Imperial Service. I may
note that the Secretary of State has laid great stress
on the power of transfer being reserved to the
Government of India. It is also necessary that the
Government of India should continue to control
the Pusa College, an Imperial College which is to
train students from all parts of India for research
Mr. It. ir.
Carlyle.
4 Apr., 1908.