Minutes of evidence taken before the Royal Commission upon Decentralization in Bengal of witnesses serving directly under the Government of India, volume 10 ([London?]: [House of Commons?], 1908)

98

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :

Mr. 11. W.
Carlyle.
■1 Apr., 1908.

Mr. L. M.
Jacob.
4 Apr., 1908.

44440**. Why should the Government of India
restrict the acceptance of salami (premium) for
the settlement of land with tenants in Government
estates under the Court of Wards 1 Is not the
result in Eastern Bengal at any rate that the
raiyat pays but the employd of the Court of Wards,
instead of the estate, benefits? Why is salami
forbidden in the case of Eastern Bengal and
allowed in the case of Bombay ?—The question has
arisen out of Mr. Savage’s evidence. He says
that “ the restriction ” complained of “ was im-
posed at the instance of the Government of India.”
This is entirely incorrect. It does not appear
that the question of the levy of salami in Govern-
ment and Court of Wards estates was ever re-
ferred to the Government of India. It has been
ascertained that the levy of salami in Government
estates was forbidden by the Board of Revenue,
Bengal, after consultation with all Commissioners.
The Government of Bengal in approving the
Board’s order said : —“ In addition to the reasons
stated by the Board for refusing salami, I am to
point out that there is also the objection that
the acceptance of salami with a low rent instead
of the full rent without salami would be tanta-
mount to the partial capitalization of revenue of
the Government estates—a measure which the
Government of India have consistently prohibited.”
This appears to be the reason why the Govern-
ment of India has been mentioned in this connec-
tion. The real objections to salami are of an
administrative character, and the Local Govern-

ment and Board decided that it was not advisable
to authorise the practice. I am not aware whether
it is the case that the raiyat pays all the same,
and that the Court of Wards employe benefits
instead of the raiyat. Mr. Savage has not ex-
plained the meaning of his reference to Bombay,
where occupancy right has a different meaning
from what it bears in Bengal. As, however, it
is not the Government of India that prohibited
the practice of taking salami in Eastern Bengal
the second part of the question does not appear to
call for further answer.
44441**. Why should not leave be granted to
Veterinary Officers direct by provincial Govern-
ments without going through the Inspector-General
in India?—I see no objection personally to pro-
vincial Governments giving leave direct to Veter-
inary Officers, provided they can make their own
arrangements for the work which has to be done.
This would usually not be the case in long leave
vacancies and, as the cadre of furlough reserve
officers is very small, the posting of reserve officers
must be left to the Government of India. It is
convenient, when Local Governments require a
substitute for an officer who wishes to take leave,
that the application should come through the
Inspector-General, Civil Veterinary Department,
to the Government of India, as the Government
of India requires the advice of the Inspector-
General, Civil Veterinary Department, in such
cases.
(The witness withdrew.)

Mr. L. M. Jacob, C.S.I., was called and examined.

44442. (.Chairman.) You are the Secretary to the
Government of India in the Public Works De-
partment?—Yes, since September, 1905. Before I
joined the Government of India, I had been
mainly an Irrigation Officer, and nearly all my
service has been in the Punjab, but I have also
been in Burma, where my work concerned the
Buildings and Roads Branch more than Irriga-
tion. I file +a memorandum relating to the con-
stitution of my department.
44443. The Member of the Government to whom
you are particularly subordinate is the Member in
the Department of Revenue and Agriculture ?—
Yes, he has charge of Revenue and Agriculture,
and Public Works.
44444. Do you take up all important questions
to him, while he sends on to the Governor-General
for personal disposal such questions as he thinks
fit ?—I generally do that; sometimes the Member
might mention that he thinks His Excellency
should see this or that case, but it is generally the
Secretary’s business to take the necessary cases to
the Viceroy.
44445. In noting on papers in your department
does the superintendent put up a note which is
amplified by another officer?—There is one office
note, whether by the superintendent or a clerk,
but for which the superintendent is responsible.
44446. What is the procedure after that?—Then
comes the Under-Secretary.
44447. The Under-Secretary adds another note
to the office note, you note again, and take it to the
Member, who notes again ; is that the process ?•—•
Yes.
44448. Is it the rule for the Member to note,
or does he merely initial if he agrees ?—If he
agrees with me he initials, or if he has anything
to suggest in addition to what I propose, or takes
an entirely different line, he would say so.
44449. Then does the paper go to the Viceroy
who sometimes minutes, and sometimes merely
initials?—Yes. Lately the practice has been that
I have a day every week with His Excellency, and
I take all the cases which need reference to him,
and lay them before him. In such cases His
Excellency might ask me to leave a file with him
for further consideration, or he might pass verbal
orders to me which I place on record.

44450. You say that the delegation of powers to
provincial Governments is very complete in respect
to buildings and roads ; is the delegation uniform
to all Governments?—Yes.
44451. But not to all Local Administrations?—
They have different powers.
44452. What is the average service of a Public
Works Secretary of a Local Government?—In the
past men have reached this rank when over 50 years
of age, but in future promotion is likely to be more
rapid.
44453. Would that mean after about, 25 years’
service?—Rather more ; an officer enters the Ser-
vice, say, at about 22 or 23 years of age.
44454. Referring to the Hable of powers which
you have set out, when were these financial limits
settled ?—I am afraid I cannot answer that, it was
no doubt a long time ago, but I will furnish the
information.
44455. At all events since that period the value
of the rupee upon which the limitation is based
has fallen considerably?—Yes.
44456. To that extent the powers of Local
Governments have been automatically restricted?
—Yes.
44457. At the same time the purchasing power
of the rupee has diminished?—Yes.
44458. So that the power has been restricted
again in that respect ?■—Yes.
44459. Is not the net result, that the size and
importance of a work which the Local Government
can now sanction is less than it was, say, 20 years
ago ?—The cost of labour has increased in recent
years and is increasing. This means that work is
more expensive, and the powers of Local Govern-
ments become automatically restricted in a corre-
sponding degree.
44460. With regard to projects which Local
Governments can sanction up to a maximum of
12) lakhs, do they go backwards and forwards
much between the Local Governments and the
Government of India, or do they simply come up
from the Local Governments to the Government of
India and go back at once after criticism in your
department?—The Local Government in all civil
works estimates has the same power as the
Government of India up to that maximum ; every-
thing above that has to go to the Secretary of

+ Vine Appendix Ic.

* Vide Question 44478*a.