DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.879#0366
ANHANG IV. LOBD ELGIN.
Your Lordship has stated. that no individual
had applied for leave to reniove? —■ To the best
of my reeollection no application had beeil made
to remove.
No application, either through you or to your
knowledge? — Yes; as far as I ran recollect.
Of cour.se your Lordship means to exeept the
permission that you stated before had been long
antecedently given to Monsieur Comte de Choi-
seul? — Yes.
Do you know, in point of fact, whether the
same perniission was granted to Monsieur Comte
de Choiseul as was granted to you ? — He exer-
cised the same power.
Hur you do not know whether he had the
same permission ? — No.
Then within your Lordship's knowledge there
is no instance of a private individual having ob-
tained such permission? — I have no knowledge
of any individual having applied for it, and I do
not know whether it has been granted or not;
I do not know that there was any difüculty in
the way of removing, by anybody.
Was it necessary that those powers should be
renewed after your Lordship came avvay, and that
the artists already employed by you are employed
ostensibly by the ministers there? — I do not
know what distinction there is between Lusieri
and any other artist.
Is he acting nnder the permission your Lord-
ship obtained? — There has been war since. J
39 Has it been renewed to your Lordship, or in-
dividually to themselves? — They have made the
application through the Channel they thought pro-
per ; what it was I do not know; but it was pro-
bably the same permission that Lord Aberdeen
had, and many other travellers that have been
there.
Your Lordship does not know whether it was
renewed to your Lordship or to Mr. Liston, or
whether they are acting under a permission grant-
ed to him, or individual permissions granted to
the artists? — I do not know «hat the detail is;
I conclude they are acting exactly as any other
traveller there is: there is no advantage from the
ambassadorial title that 1 had then, that can ap-
ply to them now, because there has been war
since.
Have they power to excavate, model, and re-
move? — They have removed a great deal from
thence.
And you do not know in what shape those
powers have been renewed since the war? — No,
I do not.
In the Letter to Mr. Long, which you have
stated, you speak as having obtained these per-
missions after much trouble and patient solicita-
tion; what was the nature of the objections on
the part of the Turkish government? — Their
geueral jealousy and enmity to every Christian
of every denomination, and every interference on
their part. 1 believe that from the peiiod of the
reign of Louis the Foiirteenth the Freiich go-
vernment have been endeavouring to obtain si-
• milar advantages, and particularly the Sigean
Marble.
They rested it lipon that general objection?
— lipon the general enmity to what they called
Christian Dogs. |
That was not the manner in which they stated 40
their objection? — No; but that is the fact; it
was always refused.
Without reasons? — Without reasons assign-
ed; every body on the spot knew what those
reasons were, that they would not give any facil-
ity to any thing that was not Turkish.
All your Lordship's Communications with the
forte were verbal? — There was nothing in
writing tili an Order was issued.
The objection disappeared from the moment
of the decided success of our arnis in Egypt? —
Yes; the whole system of Turkish feeling met
with a revolution, in the lirst place, from the
invasion by the Kreuch, and afterwards by our
conquest.
Your Lordship has stated in your Petition,
that you directed your attention in an especial
manner to the benetlt of rescuing from danger
the remains of Sculpture and Architecture; what
Steps did you take for that purpose? — My whole
plan was to measure and to draw every thing
that remained and could be traced of architec-
ture , to model the peculiar features of architec-
ture ; I brouglit home a piece of each description
of columit for instance , and capitals and decora-
tions of every description; friezes and moulds,
and, in some instances, original specimens; and
the architects not only went over the measure-
ments that had been before traced, but by remo-
ving the foundations were enabled to extend them
and to open the way to further enquiries, which
have been attended since with considerable
success.
You State, that you have rescued the remains
from danger? — From the period of Stuart's Vi-
sit to Athens | tili the time I went to Turkey, )1
a very great destruction had taken place. There
was an old teniple on the Ilissus had disappeared.
There was in the neighbourhood of Klis and Olym-
pia another temple , which had disappeared. At
Corinth, I think .Stuart gives thirteen columiis,
and there were only üve when 1 go. there ; every
traveller Coming, added to the general defacement
of the statuary in his reach: there are now in
London pieces broken off within our day. And
the Turks have been continually defacing the
heads; and in some instances they have actually
acknowledged to me, that they have pounded
down the statues to convert them into mortar:
It was upon these suggestions, and with these
feelings, that 1 proceeded to remove as much of
the sculpture as I conveniently could ; it was no
part of my original plan to bring away any thing
but my mödels.
Then your Lordship did not do any thing to
rescue them, in any other way than to bring away
such as you found? — No ; it was impossible
for me to do more than that; the Turkish go-
vernment attached no importance to them in the
world ; and in all the modern walls, these things
are built up promiscuously with common stones.
It has been stated, that in a despatch from
Turkey, at a very early period after your Lord-
ship went out, that your Lordship had an occa-
sion to write to His Majesty's goveriinieut con-
cerning your public appointment as a minister,
and that you stated some circumstatices distinctly
to them at that time, which showed your under-
Your Lordship has stated. that no individual
had applied for leave to reniove? —■ To the best
of my reeollection no application had beeil made
to remove.
No application, either through you or to your
knowledge? — Yes; as far as I ran recollect.
Of cour.se your Lordship means to exeept the
permission that you stated before had been long
antecedently given to Monsieur Comte de Choi-
seul? — Yes.
Do you know, in point of fact, whether the
same perniission was granted to Monsieur Comte
de Choiseul as was granted to you ? — He exer-
cised the same power.
Hur you do not know whether he had the
same permission ? — No.
Then within your Lordship's knowledge there
is no instance of a private individual having ob-
tained such permission? — I have no knowledge
of any individual having applied for it, and I do
not know whether it has been granted or not;
I do not know that there was any difüculty in
the way of removing, by anybody.
Was it necessary that those powers should be
renewed after your Lordship came avvay, and that
the artists already employed by you are employed
ostensibly by the ministers there? — I do not
know what distinction there is between Lusieri
and any other artist.
Is he acting nnder the permission your Lord-
ship obtained? — There has been war since. J
39 Has it been renewed to your Lordship, or in-
dividually to themselves? — They have made the
application through the Channel they thought pro-
per ; what it was I do not know; but it was pro-
bably the same permission that Lord Aberdeen
had, and many other travellers that have been
there.
Your Lordship does not know whether it was
renewed to your Lordship or to Mr. Liston, or
whether they are acting under a permission grant-
ed to him, or individual permissions granted to
the artists? — I do not know «hat the detail is;
I conclude they are acting exactly as any other
traveller there is: there is no advantage from the
ambassadorial title that 1 had then, that can ap-
ply to them now, because there has been war
since.
Have they power to excavate, model, and re-
move? — They have removed a great deal from
thence.
And you do not know in what shape those
powers have been renewed since the war? — No,
I do not.
In the Letter to Mr. Long, which you have
stated, you speak as having obtained these per-
missions after much trouble and patient solicita-
tion; what was the nature of the objections on
the part of the Turkish government? — Their
geueral jealousy and enmity to every Christian
of every denomination, and every interference on
their part. 1 believe that from the peiiod of the
reign of Louis the Foiirteenth the Freiich go-
vernment have been endeavouring to obtain si-
• milar advantages, and particularly the Sigean
Marble.
They rested it lipon that general objection?
— lipon the general enmity to what they called
Christian Dogs. |
That was not the manner in which they stated 40
their objection? — No; but that is the fact; it
was always refused.
Without reasons? — Without reasons assign-
ed; every body on the spot knew what those
reasons were, that they would not give any facil-
ity to any thing that was not Turkish.
All your Lordship's Communications with the
forte were verbal? — There was nothing in
writing tili an Order was issued.
The objection disappeared from the moment
of the decided success of our arnis in Egypt? —
Yes; the whole system of Turkish feeling met
with a revolution, in the lirst place, from the
invasion by the Kreuch, and afterwards by our
conquest.
Your Lordship has stated in your Petition,
that you directed your attention in an especial
manner to the benetlt of rescuing from danger
the remains of Sculpture and Architecture; what
Steps did you take for that purpose? — My whole
plan was to measure and to draw every thing
that remained and could be traced of architec-
ture , to model the peculiar features of architec-
ture ; I brouglit home a piece of each description
of columit for instance , and capitals and decora-
tions of every description; friezes and moulds,
and, in some instances, original specimens; and
the architects not only went over the measure-
ments that had been before traced, but by remo-
ving the foundations were enabled to extend them
and to open the way to further enquiries, which
have been attended since with considerable
success.
You State, that you have rescued the remains
from danger? — From the period of Stuart's Vi-
sit to Athens | tili the time I went to Turkey, )1
a very great destruction had taken place. There
was an old teniple on the Ilissus had disappeared.
There was in the neighbourhood of Klis and Olym-
pia another temple , which had disappeared. At
Corinth, I think .Stuart gives thirteen columiis,
and there were only üve when 1 go. there ; every
traveller Coming, added to the general defacement
of the statuary in his reach: there are now in
London pieces broken off within our day. And
the Turks have been continually defacing the
heads; and in some instances they have actually
acknowledged to me, that they have pounded
down the statues to convert them into mortar:
It was upon these suggestions, and with these
feelings, that 1 proceeded to remove as much of
the sculpture as I conveniently could ; it was no
part of my original plan to bring away any thing
but my mödels.
Then your Lordship did not do any thing to
rescue them, in any other way than to bring away
such as you found? — No ; it was impossible
for me to do more than that; the Turkish go-
vernment attached no importance to them in the
world ; and in all the modern walls, these things
are built up promiscuously with common stones.
It has been stated, that in a despatch from
Turkey, at a very early period after your Lord-
ship went out, that your Lordship had an occa-
sion to write to His Majesty's goveriinieut con-
cerning your public appointment as a minister,
and that you stated some circumstatices distinctly
to them at that time, which showed your under-