DOI Seite / Zitierlink:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0058
52
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :
elect its own village headman to look after it; bat if
Maa/msudan yOU groap it with other villages, then you might get
several castes who would not care to sit together.
!8 Dec., 1907, 15567. Is it better to leave a village by itself, or to
- group it with other villages for chaukidari purposes,
for instance ?—I suppose it would be necessary to
group them together, otherwise the chaukidari tax
would be very heavy.
15568. Supposing a village had a little money to
manage a school, would you leave that to a single
village or to a group of villages ?—I would leave it to
the villages which fed the school : each village cannot
possibly have a school ; it must be fed by a number
of villages, and those villages should have the manage-
ment.
15569. And if you have a group system do not the
low class people go to the wall ?—They should not be
allowed to do so.
15570. What would you do to protect their' in-
terests ?—I do not think they should be allowed to sit
together, but they should be allowed to elect.
15571. But would they not have to stand at a
distance and make their wants known ?—As it is now,
they have to do so.
15572. With regard to enlarging the boundaries of
Orissa, was there not an agitation in that direction
some years ago in which you yourself took part ?—
Yes.
15573. Are you aware that the proposal was dis-
cussed, and the Madras Government gave what
seemed to the Government of India very strong
reasons against it ?—Yes, and when we went to the
Government of India Lord Ampthill happened to be
presiding over the Government of India.
15574. You dwelt on the desirability of great care
being taken lest the circumstances and needs of Orissa
should be sacrificed to Bengal ideas ; is there not a
possible advantage in a reference to the Government
■of India in regard to matters which the Local Govern-
ment might otherwise desire a free hand over ? Do
you think the Government of India would exercise
any check on the Bengalisation of Orissa, to coin a
word ?—I do not think I should be justified in giving
an opinion on that subject. I am not prepared to say
■one way or the other.
15575. You were Chairman of the Local Board?—
Yes.
15576. {Mr. Mickens.) Where did you get your
funds from ?—The District Board made an allotment
in their budget.
15577. Can you claim a definite amount, or do you
have to take what you can get ?—We have to take
what we can get.
15578. Did you look after roads and education ?—
We looked after the village roads and a little after the
education. The Local Boards are left at the mercy
of the District Board in these matters. The same
people serve on both Boards ; consequently the Local
Boards are not given a fair chance.
15579. Would you like to do away with Local
Boards altogether ?—No.
15580. Would you give them increased powers ? —
Yes ; the District Boards ought to supervise, and see
that the Local Boards do their work.
15581. Would you give Local Boards independent
powers of taxation ?—No.
15582. Would you say that they were entitled to
half the cess, for instance, collected within their area ?
—I do not think I should be justified in giving an
opinion unless I knew what other charges there were
justly due on the cess, but I think they ought to have
an allotment of a fair proportion of it.
15583. Have the European officials in Orissa a good
knowledge of the vernacular ?—Not at all, neither
Europeans nor natives.
15584. The members of the Provincial Service are
not necessarily recruited from the district in which
they serve ?—No.
15585. Is it very desirable that these subordinate
officers should have a proper knowledge of the ver-
nacular ?—Yes, I think so.
15586. Does that mean that the members of the
Subordinate and the Provincial Services, as regards
Orissa, should be recruited from that division ?—No.
15587. From the province?—No, not necessarily
always ; I mean to say if the demands require it, get
them from anywhere ; but as many of them as can be
recruited from Orissa certainly ought to be.
15588. If they were recruited from other parts of
Bengal they would not know the language ?—They
would not know the language, nor the land tenure
system, because the unit of measurement of land is
different.
{The witness withdrew.)
Mr. H. R. Irwin was called and examined.
Mr. II. It. 15589. {Chairman.') You represent the Darjeeling
Irwin. Planters’ Association ?—Yes. Executive Officers have
~‘ certainly not sufficient opportunities for personal
28 ec„ , con^acq the people. The obstacle is that their
time in any one appointment is too limited to admit
of their becoming acquainted with the residents of
the districts. In this district (Darjeeling), the full
period for which a Deputy Commissioner is appointed
is now only two years (it used to be five), and many
do not remain the full, period. Two years is too
short a time in which to become acquainted with the
residents and wants of a district like this. It is of
the greatest importance that officials, in outlying
semi-barbarous districts such as this, should have, as
far as possible, an accurate knowledge of the ver-
nacular, but, except in very rare instances, such is
not the case, and the want of it is a great impediment
to the effective administration of the same. It is no
fault of the officers concerned, as the language cannot
be acquired in the short time at their command, in
addition to their other duties. The only remedy
that suggests itself to me is, that provinces should be
split up into sub-divisions, and that the junior officials
should, as far as possible, be confined to their own
particular sub-divisions. Either the areas of districts
should be reduced, or the period for which an official
is appointed should be extended, either of which
would enable him to get more into touch with the
residents and wants of the district he controls.
Transfers of officers are unnecessarily frequent and
are a great impediment to the successful and effective
administration of the country. Take the case of this
most important district of Darjeeling, the main gate,
as it may well be called, of Tibet, the artery through
which the increasing trade with that country is con-
ducted. During the last 21 months no less than five
(I am not sure that it is not six) different officers
have acted as Deputy Commissioners. In former
years one official (since retired), at all events, was
connected with this district in one capacity or another
for almost the whole of his service, knew and could
speak the vernacular fluently, and is now looked upon
as an authority on all matters connected with this
frontier.
The powers of the Government of India might
advantageously be extended, so that its decision, in
cases which affect the purely internal administration
of the country, should be final and not subject to
the veto of the Secretary of State in England. A
case in point is that the proposed bridge over the
Ganges at Sara ; this scheme has been under con-
sideration for the last sixteen or seventeen years or
more, is supported by virtually the whole of the
mercantile community of Calcutta, and I believe I am
right in saying that not only the Government of
Bengal, which province is principally affected, but
the Supreme Government of India and the late
Viceroy, some years ago, recommended its immediate
construction, but it is barred by the Secretary of
State, an official who has never been in the country
and knows nothing of its internal needs or necessities.
It has been openly said that this is due to pressure
brought to bear upon the Home Government by wealthy
capitalists and financiers in London for their own pur-
poses. Whether this is true or not, of course I cannot
say, but it is certainly within the bounds of possibility
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :
elect its own village headman to look after it; bat if
Maa/msudan yOU groap it with other villages, then you might get
several castes who would not care to sit together.
!8 Dec., 1907, 15567. Is it better to leave a village by itself, or to
- group it with other villages for chaukidari purposes,
for instance ?—I suppose it would be necessary to
group them together, otherwise the chaukidari tax
would be very heavy.
15568. Supposing a village had a little money to
manage a school, would you leave that to a single
village or to a group of villages ?—I would leave it to
the villages which fed the school : each village cannot
possibly have a school ; it must be fed by a number
of villages, and those villages should have the manage-
ment.
15569. And if you have a group system do not the
low class people go to the wall ?—They should not be
allowed to do so.
15570. What would you do to protect their' in-
terests ?—I do not think they should be allowed to sit
together, but they should be allowed to elect.
15571. But would they not have to stand at a
distance and make their wants known ?—As it is now,
they have to do so.
15572. With regard to enlarging the boundaries of
Orissa, was there not an agitation in that direction
some years ago in which you yourself took part ?—
Yes.
15573. Are you aware that the proposal was dis-
cussed, and the Madras Government gave what
seemed to the Government of India very strong
reasons against it ?—Yes, and when we went to the
Government of India Lord Ampthill happened to be
presiding over the Government of India.
15574. You dwelt on the desirability of great care
being taken lest the circumstances and needs of Orissa
should be sacrificed to Bengal ideas ; is there not a
possible advantage in a reference to the Government
■of India in regard to matters which the Local Govern-
ment might otherwise desire a free hand over ? Do
you think the Government of India would exercise
any check on the Bengalisation of Orissa, to coin a
word ?—I do not think I should be justified in giving
an opinion on that subject. I am not prepared to say
■one way or the other.
15575. You were Chairman of the Local Board?—
Yes.
15576. {Mr. Mickens.) Where did you get your
funds from ?—The District Board made an allotment
in their budget.
15577. Can you claim a definite amount, or do you
have to take what you can get ?—We have to take
what we can get.
15578. Did you look after roads and education ?—
We looked after the village roads and a little after the
education. The Local Boards are left at the mercy
of the District Board in these matters. The same
people serve on both Boards ; consequently the Local
Boards are not given a fair chance.
15579. Would you like to do away with Local
Boards altogether ?—No.
15580. Would you give them increased powers ? —
Yes ; the District Boards ought to supervise, and see
that the Local Boards do their work.
15581. Would you give Local Boards independent
powers of taxation ?—No.
15582. Would you say that they were entitled to
half the cess, for instance, collected within their area ?
—I do not think I should be justified in giving an
opinion unless I knew what other charges there were
justly due on the cess, but I think they ought to have
an allotment of a fair proportion of it.
15583. Have the European officials in Orissa a good
knowledge of the vernacular ?—Not at all, neither
Europeans nor natives.
15584. The members of the Provincial Service are
not necessarily recruited from the district in which
they serve ?—No.
15585. Is it very desirable that these subordinate
officers should have a proper knowledge of the ver-
nacular ?—Yes, I think so.
15586. Does that mean that the members of the
Subordinate and the Provincial Services, as regards
Orissa, should be recruited from that division ?—No.
15587. From the province?—No, not necessarily
always ; I mean to say if the demands require it, get
them from anywhere ; but as many of them as can be
recruited from Orissa certainly ought to be.
15588. If they were recruited from other parts of
Bengal they would not know the language ?—They
would not know the language, nor the land tenure
system, because the unit of measurement of land is
different.
{The witness withdrew.)
Mr. H. R. Irwin was called and examined.
Mr. II. It. 15589. {Chairman.') You represent the Darjeeling
Irwin. Planters’ Association ?—Yes. Executive Officers have
~‘ certainly not sufficient opportunities for personal
28 ec„ , con^acq the people. The obstacle is that their
time in any one appointment is too limited to admit
of their becoming acquainted with the residents of
the districts. In this district (Darjeeling), the full
period for which a Deputy Commissioner is appointed
is now only two years (it used to be five), and many
do not remain the full, period. Two years is too
short a time in which to become acquainted with the
residents and wants of a district like this. It is of
the greatest importance that officials, in outlying
semi-barbarous districts such as this, should have, as
far as possible, an accurate knowledge of the ver-
nacular, but, except in very rare instances, such is
not the case, and the want of it is a great impediment
to the effective administration of the same. It is no
fault of the officers concerned, as the language cannot
be acquired in the short time at their command, in
addition to their other duties. The only remedy
that suggests itself to me is, that provinces should be
split up into sub-divisions, and that the junior officials
should, as far as possible, be confined to their own
particular sub-divisions. Either the areas of districts
should be reduced, or the period for which an official
is appointed should be extended, either of which
would enable him to get more into touch with the
residents and wants of the district he controls.
Transfers of officers are unnecessarily frequent and
are a great impediment to the successful and effective
administration of the country. Take the case of this
most important district of Darjeeling, the main gate,
as it may well be called, of Tibet, the artery through
which the increasing trade with that country is con-
ducted. During the last 21 months no less than five
(I am not sure that it is not six) different officers
have acted as Deputy Commissioners. In former
years one official (since retired), at all events, was
connected with this district in one capacity or another
for almost the whole of his service, knew and could
speak the vernacular fluently, and is now looked upon
as an authority on all matters connected with this
frontier.
The powers of the Government of India might
advantageously be extended, so that its decision, in
cases which affect the purely internal administration
of the country, should be final and not subject to
the veto of the Secretary of State in England. A
case in point is that the proposed bridge over the
Ganges at Sara ; this scheme has been under con-
sideration for the last sixteen or seventeen years or
more, is supported by virtually the whole of the
mercantile community of Calcutta, and I believe I am
right in saying that not only the Government of
Bengal, which province is principally affected, but
the Supreme Government of India and the late
Viceroy, some years ago, recommended its immediate
construction, but it is barred by the Secretary of
State, an official who has never been in the country
and knows nothing of its internal needs or necessities.
It has been openly said that this is due to pressure
brought to bear upon the Home Government by wealthy
capitalists and financiers in London for their own pur-
poses. Whether this is true or not, of course I cannot
say, but it is certainly within the bounds of possibility