DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0060
54
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :
Mr. II. R.
Irwin.
28 Dec., 1907.
Nawab Abdur
Rahman.
28 Dec., 1907.
at Darjeeling intended to prevent an officer staying
too long in what is considered the most pleasant
district in the province ?—I am afraid I cannot say.
15620. Might it not be of advantage to a man after
he has been in a certain district for a time to be sent
to another district in order to see if things are done
there in a similar way, or in a different way?—Yes,
I daresay I was wrong in saying that a man should be
kept quite so long in one place, but I think he should
be kept long enough in a district to learn the language
and to know the inhabitants of that district, and five
years would be sufficient for that.
15621. If he stays too long he might get into a
groove ?—Yes.
15622. And if he is sent to another kind of post,
would he not be hampered by the fact that he had
only been before at one place ?—Yes, that is so.
15623. With regard to petty cases, as to which you
would like to have some rough and ready method of
justice, are not you planters sometimes Honorary
Magistrates ?—Yes.
15624. Could you not settle those cases ?—No, I
think that would be beyond our jurisdiction ; cases of
heavy debt never come before us.
15625. Of course it would be understood that these
powers would not apply to cases in which you your-
selves were interested, but as between one coolie and
another, might it not be a way out of the difficulty if
the planters, as Honorary Magistrates, were given some
higher powers than they have now ?—Yes, I think it
would be a good way out of the difficulty.
15626. (Sir Steyning Edgerley.) Have you on your
estates two or three thoroughly trustworthy natives ?
—Yes.
15627. And the planter himself is very well
acquainted with the ins and outs of family life of the
coolies and natives he employs ?—Yes, I think most
planters know their natives thoroughly.
15628. Would it be possible in cases of dispute, to
have a small arbitration committee, each disputant
nominating one, and one of your experienced natives
sitting as head of such a small arbitration committee ?
—I am afraid that that would not work.
15629. Would you rather that matters were dealt
with through the planters themselves ?—Yes. I have
been instructed to ask that a permanent representa-
tive of the tea industry should he appointed on the
Viceroy’s Council. For some years the industry was
represented on the Council, and we consider that we
should have some representation there.
{The witness withdrew.)
Nawab A. F. M. Abdur Rahman was called and examined.
15630. (Chairman.) You are a Barrister-at-Law and
Judge of the Presidency Court of Small Causes ?—-I
am, since the last 12 years, and before that I was at
the Bar for 15 years. My family originally came from
Eastern Bengal, but it has been in Calcutta for the
last two generations.
I am opposed to Administrative Councils, but I am
in favour of the creation of Advisory Councils to
assist Divisional or District Officers. For some time
past a measure of the kind contemplated by the
establishment of Advisory Councils has been con-
sidered as a growing want in India. In the interests
of the Muhammadan community of these Provinces,
I fully approve the scheme of the Government of
India for the establishment and recognition of a
determinate body of advisers to be called the Imperial
and Provincial Advisory Councils. At the same time
I would continue the policy of the Government in
eliciting the opinions of Indian gentlemen in all ranks
of society on various administrative measures, and
Indian gentlemen who have had the privilege of
advising District or Divisional Officers, Lieutenant-
Governors, Governors or Viceroys, should be encouraged
to do so by continued confidence shown to them.
It is well known that the Muhammadan community
had not hitherto received an adequate representation
commensurate with their numerical, political and
historical importance in Bengal ; they, therefore,
welcome with feelings of gratitude the concession
which Government are about to make in recognising
the principle of class representation and the special
interests of the Muhammadan minority. The griev-
ance of the Muhammadans of these provinces is, that
notwithstanding their advance in education, their
intelligence and administrative capacity, their number
in the Provincial Civil Service, both in the Judicial
and Executive branches, as also in the Education,
Police, Registration, and other Departments of the
Public Service, is exceedingly inadequate. They,
therefore, anxiously hope that the Government will
be pleased to extend the principle of class represen-
tation to the various departments of the Public
Service, and thus safeguard the interest of Mu-
hammadans and ensure their better and increased
employment.
I would constitute local Advisory Councils to assist
Divisional or District Officers on similar lines as the
Provincial Advisory Councils. In each division and
district Muhammadan noblemen and gentlemen of
proved loyalty, good birth, education and influence
should be nominated as members. Questions of legis-
lation ; questions involving free, primary, or secon-
dary education ; introduction of new measures, such
as plague rules, vaccination or inoculation ; improved
methods of agriculture ; questions regarding distress
or famine ; sanitation and drainage or, in other words,
all important matters affecting the well-being of the
various classes inhabiting the districts, may be placed
before them for opinion and advice.
In the event of the Government reserving a certain
number of appointments in the Public Service for the
benefit of qualified Muhammadans, the local Advisory
Councils would be of great assistance in selecting
young Muhammadans of good birth and education
who would command the respect of the community.
It would not be expedient to invest District Boards
with powers of supervision and control over the
smaller municipalities within their respective districts.
The smaller municipalities should be encouraged to
develop themselves independently.
From my experience of village communities in
Bengal and Eastern Bengal, I am of opinion that it
is not desirable, even if it may be possible in some
places, to give the village communities greater powers
in the disposal of local affairs relating to revenue,
police, sanitary, educational and other matters, such
as the disposal of petty criminal and civil cases. Any
such powers given to them are likely to be seriously
abused.
15631. Would it be easy to get persons to serve
upon divisional and district Advisory Councils?—I
should think so. There might te places where there
might be difficulty, but there are other places where
there would be none.
15632. Is it advisable to give District Boards or the
smaller municipalities any greater powers than they
at present possess ? — I would make the small munici-
palities independent of the District Boards and enable
them to develop themselves, but I would not extend
their powers.
15633. With regard to village communities, are they
capable of receiving some larger grant of power ?—
In my opinion they are not.
15634. Is that because the community, as a com-
munity, is non-existent, or because the principal
people in the village communities are not fit to be
trusted with greater powers ?—In some places the
community is non-existent ; in other places where
they are in existence, they are not what they used to
be at one time. In each village there is a faction, and
I know from my experience in Bengal and Eastern
Bengal, in each village there are two parties amongst
Muhammadans and Hindus ; these people are mostly
under the influence of the zamindar, and the result is
they are always fighting over-something or other.
That being so, it would be highly injudicious to
entrust them with any powers of the character pro-
posed.
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE :
Mr. II. R.
Irwin.
28 Dec., 1907.
Nawab Abdur
Rahman.
28 Dec., 1907.
at Darjeeling intended to prevent an officer staying
too long in what is considered the most pleasant
district in the province ?—I am afraid I cannot say.
15620. Might it not be of advantage to a man after
he has been in a certain district for a time to be sent
to another district in order to see if things are done
there in a similar way, or in a different way?—Yes,
I daresay I was wrong in saying that a man should be
kept quite so long in one place, but I think he should
be kept long enough in a district to learn the language
and to know the inhabitants of that district, and five
years would be sufficient for that.
15621. If he stays too long he might get into a
groove ?—Yes.
15622. And if he is sent to another kind of post,
would he not be hampered by the fact that he had
only been before at one place ?—Yes, that is so.
15623. With regard to petty cases, as to which you
would like to have some rough and ready method of
justice, are not you planters sometimes Honorary
Magistrates ?—Yes.
15624. Could you not settle those cases ?—No, I
think that would be beyond our jurisdiction ; cases of
heavy debt never come before us.
15625. Of course it would be understood that these
powers would not apply to cases in which you your-
selves were interested, but as between one coolie and
another, might it not be a way out of the difficulty if
the planters, as Honorary Magistrates, were given some
higher powers than they have now ?—Yes, I think it
would be a good way out of the difficulty.
15626. (Sir Steyning Edgerley.) Have you on your
estates two or three thoroughly trustworthy natives ?
—Yes.
15627. And the planter himself is very well
acquainted with the ins and outs of family life of the
coolies and natives he employs ?—Yes, I think most
planters know their natives thoroughly.
15628. Would it be possible in cases of dispute, to
have a small arbitration committee, each disputant
nominating one, and one of your experienced natives
sitting as head of such a small arbitration committee ?
—I am afraid that that would not work.
15629. Would you rather that matters were dealt
with through the planters themselves ?—Yes. I have
been instructed to ask that a permanent representa-
tive of the tea industry should he appointed on the
Viceroy’s Council. For some years the industry was
represented on the Council, and we consider that we
should have some representation there.
{The witness withdrew.)
Nawab A. F. M. Abdur Rahman was called and examined.
15630. (Chairman.) You are a Barrister-at-Law and
Judge of the Presidency Court of Small Causes ?—-I
am, since the last 12 years, and before that I was at
the Bar for 15 years. My family originally came from
Eastern Bengal, but it has been in Calcutta for the
last two generations.
I am opposed to Administrative Councils, but I am
in favour of the creation of Advisory Councils to
assist Divisional or District Officers. For some time
past a measure of the kind contemplated by the
establishment of Advisory Councils has been con-
sidered as a growing want in India. In the interests
of the Muhammadan community of these Provinces,
I fully approve the scheme of the Government of
India for the establishment and recognition of a
determinate body of advisers to be called the Imperial
and Provincial Advisory Councils. At the same time
I would continue the policy of the Government in
eliciting the opinions of Indian gentlemen in all ranks
of society on various administrative measures, and
Indian gentlemen who have had the privilege of
advising District or Divisional Officers, Lieutenant-
Governors, Governors or Viceroys, should be encouraged
to do so by continued confidence shown to them.
It is well known that the Muhammadan community
had not hitherto received an adequate representation
commensurate with their numerical, political and
historical importance in Bengal ; they, therefore,
welcome with feelings of gratitude the concession
which Government are about to make in recognising
the principle of class representation and the special
interests of the Muhammadan minority. The griev-
ance of the Muhammadans of these provinces is, that
notwithstanding their advance in education, their
intelligence and administrative capacity, their number
in the Provincial Civil Service, both in the Judicial
and Executive branches, as also in the Education,
Police, Registration, and other Departments of the
Public Service, is exceedingly inadequate. They,
therefore, anxiously hope that the Government will
be pleased to extend the principle of class represen-
tation to the various departments of the Public
Service, and thus safeguard the interest of Mu-
hammadans and ensure their better and increased
employment.
I would constitute local Advisory Councils to assist
Divisional or District Officers on similar lines as the
Provincial Advisory Councils. In each division and
district Muhammadan noblemen and gentlemen of
proved loyalty, good birth, education and influence
should be nominated as members. Questions of legis-
lation ; questions involving free, primary, or secon-
dary education ; introduction of new measures, such
as plague rules, vaccination or inoculation ; improved
methods of agriculture ; questions regarding distress
or famine ; sanitation and drainage or, in other words,
all important matters affecting the well-being of the
various classes inhabiting the districts, may be placed
before them for opinion and advice.
In the event of the Government reserving a certain
number of appointments in the Public Service for the
benefit of qualified Muhammadans, the local Advisory
Councils would be of great assistance in selecting
young Muhammadans of good birth and education
who would command the respect of the community.
It would not be expedient to invest District Boards
with powers of supervision and control over the
smaller municipalities within their respective districts.
The smaller municipalities should be encouraged to
develop themselves independently.
From my experience of village communities in
Bengal and Eastern Bengal, I am of opinion that it
is not desirable, even if it may be possible in some
places, to give the village communities greater powers
in the disposal of local affairs relating to revenue,
police, sanitary, educational and other matters, such
as the disposal of petty criminal and civil cases. Any
such powers given to them are likely to be seriously
abused.
15631. Would it be easy to get persons to serve
upon divisional and district Advisory Councils?—I
should think so. There might te places where there
might be difficulty, but there are other places where
there would be none.
15632. Is it advisable to give District Boards or the
smaller municipalities any greater powers than they
at present possess ? — I would make the small munici-
palities independent of the District Boards and enable
them to develop themselves, but I would not extend
their powers.
15633. With regard to village communities, are they
capable of receiving some larger grant of power ?—
In my opinion they are not.
15634. Is that because the community, as a com-
munity, is non-existent, or because the principal
people in the village communities are not fit to be
trusted with greater powers ?—In some places the
community is non-existent ; in other places where
they are in existence, they are not what they used to
be at one time. In each village there is a faction, and
I know from my experience in Bengal and Eastern
Bengal, in each village there are two parties amongst
Muhammadans and Hindus ; these people are mostly
under the influence of the zamindar, and the result is
they are always fighting over-something or other.
That being so, it would be highly injudicious to
entrust them with any powers of the character pro-
posed.