DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0094
88
MINUTES OE EVIDENCE :
Mr. F. G.
Dumayue.
31 Dee., 1907.
Mr. G. W.
Kuohler,
31 Dec., 1907.
that you wish the same latitude as is accorded to other
Port Trusts ?—Yes, I think the Bombay Port Trust
has greater latitude than we have.
16528. Would you like to have the same general
latitude as the Bombay Port Trust has ?—Yes, quite
as much as they have.
16529. With regard to the Pilot Service, how far
does your jurisdiction as a Port Trust extend down
the river ?—Really to the Sandheads. The pilot comes
on board at the Sandheads.
16530. So that you would not require any extension
of jurisdiction to take in the Pilot Service ?—No.
16531. Has the matter of extension of jurisdiction
been discussed?—The matter came forward on one
occasion when I was a member of a Committee about
three years ago to consider the fees payable to the
Pilot Service, and, by the order of the Commissioners,
I represented to the Committee the advisability of the
Commissioners taking charge of the Service. The
Committee considered that the matter was outside
the province of its enquiry, and said that, if we wished,
we might submit it to the Government. We did not
do so, and have not done so up to the present time,
although, perhaps, we might do so later.
16532. May I put it that your Trust, as [a Trust,
have not really fully considered the matter ?—Xo, they
have, fully considered it and determined upon it.
{The witness withdrew.')
Mr. G. W. Kuchleb ’
16533. {Chairman.) You are on special duty in the
office of the Director of Public Instruction of Bengal,
and have been in the Educational Service in India since
March 1885 ?—Yes.
The present status of the Director is not of a nature
calculated to secure for educational projects the atten-
tion which they deserve. The department has often
been blamed for defects in the educational system of
the country, for which it is nowise responsible. The
proposal that the Director should be given the status
of a Joint-Secretary to Government would go far to
remedy the present ineffectiveness of the Educational
Department, and if this reform could be introduced
without difficulty, it would probably be wise not to go
further than this for the present. The ultimate, and
the best, solution of the problem will be to create an
independent Secretariat, and to make the head of the
Department a Secretary to Government. The work
of educational administration is so complex and covers
so wide an area, that it cannot be satisfactorily dealt
with by a Secretary, of whose duties it forms only a
small portion. This position has been accepted in
practically all other civilised countries, and its reason-
ableness cannot long be gainsaid in India.
As long as the functions of the Director-General of
Education are purely advisory, his influence is, I think,
entirely for good, but his designation, under those
circumstances, seems to be somewhat of a misnomer.
Such co-ordination of educational policy as is neces-
sary in India can be effected on the basis of the infor-
mation which it would be his duty to supply, and the
advice which he may be able to give to the Imperial
Government. Should, however, greater latitude be
left to the provincial Governments in their educational
policy, the Director-General’s functions will be neces-
sarily considerably diminished, audit becomes doubtful
whether the continuance of the post is necessary, at
least in its present form.
An Inspector of Schools should have a thorough
knowledge of the vernacular or vernaculars of his
division. Without such knowledge, he cannot pos-
sibly keep in direct touch with vernacular education
or control the work of his subordinate officers. An
adequate test of his knowledge of the language should,
therefore, be insisted on in the case of inspecting
officers.
Transfers of educational officers, though not so
frequent as in the case of civilians, still occur too often
for efficiency. Professors should, as far as possible,
be appointed permanently or at least for a long term
of years to the individual colleges. Transfers, especi-
ally in the middle of the session, are extremely
hampering to the work of the college, and have, as
already indicated, been till recently regulated too
much by mere departmental convenience.
The value of the work of Inspectors naturally in-
creases up to a certain point with their knowledge of
the division and their acquaintance with the language.
And though it is desirable in their case that their
experience should not be confined to one division,
their term of service in any one post should be of
reasonable length.
The management of primary and middle schools by
District Boards has not been a conspicuous success,
and under these circumstances, the delegation of
further powers to these bodies would not be justified.
The unsatisfactory state of the schools under their
was called and examined.
control is largely, but not entirely, due to want of
funds. When the management of primary education
was entrusted to the District Boards, a certain allot-
ment was made from provincial funds, and, in addi-
tion, certain sources of revenue—i.n., pounds and
ferries—were handed over to the Boards to enable
them to carry out the work. The revenue from
pounds and ferries was partly assigned to the cost of
education, partly to that of medical aid. These
revenues are of an expanding nature, and have in fact
expanded considerably of late years, but practically
no part of the increase has been devoted to education.
Presumably the intention of Government in assigning
these sources of revenue was to provide an automatic
increase of income to meet the natural increase in the
demands of education, and the failure of the Boards
to apply the available funds to this purpose can only
be taken as an indication of their general apathy in
educational matters. One way, for example, in which
the money at their disposal might profitably have been
employed, would have been to the improvement of
middle schools managed directly by the Boards. These
schools are intended to serve as model schools, but,
far from fulfilling this object, they are as badly off
as most of the schools of this class as regards build-
ings, equipment, and staff, and are indeed considerably
inferior to many of the institutions which are under
private management, and merely receive grants-in-aid.
The above remarks apply equally to Local Boards.
More might be done in the way of interesting the
members of village unions in village education. They
might, for example, be of use in selecting sites for
schools, supervising the work of the gurus—i.e., see-
ing that they attend regularly, etc.—and in other mat-
ters of this nature. When inspecting officers have
approached them in the proper spirit, members of these
unions have generally shown themselves willing to
contribute to the erection of patshalas either in
material work or cash. It would not be wise to en-
trust them for the present with any financial powers.
16534; A scheme has been put forward by the
Director of Public Instruction by which he would
become a Joint-Secretary to Government for the pur-
poses of education. In that proposal do you concur ?
—Yes.
16535. At the present moment, in making theii- pro-
posals, why do not the Education Department go to
the Secretary to Government, before they have actually
formulated them?—I understand that the Secretary
in the General Department prefers, before he passes
judgment on any proposal, that it should be put before
him in a cut-and dried form.
* 16536. Do you see any objection to the Head of
your Department conferring unofficially with the
Secretary to Government, before these proposals are
formulated?—No ; it would be an excellent thing.
16537. It might save, what the Director, calls,
laborious working up in the office of the various
schemes ?—It might to a certain extent, but still it
would not alter the procedure, which the Secretariat
wouid think necessary, namely, that when any pro-
posal did come from the office of the Director of
Public Instruction, it should, figst of all, be noted on
in the Secretary’s office.
16538. Who are the gentlemen who note on it in
the Secretary’s office ?—After a case has been very
MINUTES OE EVIDENCE :
Mr. F. G.
Dumayue.
31 Dee., 1907.
Mr. G. W.
Kuohler,
31 Dec., 1907.
that you wish the same latitude as is accorded to other
Port Trusts ?—Yes, I think the Bombay Port Trust
has greater latitude than we have.
16528. Would you like to have the same general
latitude as the Bombay Port Trust has ?—Yes, quite
as much as they have.
16529. With regard to the Pilot Service, how far
does your jurisdiction as a Port Trust extend down
the river ?—Really to the Sandheads. The pilot comes
on board at the Sandheads.
16530. So that you would not require any extension
of jurisdiction to take in the Pilot Service ?—No.
16531. Has the matter of extension of jurisdiction
been discussed?—The matter came forward on one
occasion when I was a member of a Committee about
three years ago to consider the fees payable to the
Pilot Service, and, by the order of the Commissioners,
I represented to the Committee the advisability of the
Commissioners taking charge of the Service. The
Committee considered that the matter was outside
the province of its enquiry, and said that, if we wished,
we might submit it to the Government. We did not
do so, and have not done so up to the present time,
although, perhaps, we might do so later.
16532. May I put it that your Trust, as [a Trust,
have not really fully considered the matter ?—Xo, they
have, fully considered it and determined upon it.
{The witness withdrew.')
Mr. G. W. Kuchleb ’
16533. {Chairman.) You are on special duty in the
office of the Director of Public Instruction of Bengal,
and have been in the Educational Service in India since
March 1885 ?—Yes.
The present status of the Director is not of a nature
calculated to secure for educational projects the atten-
tion which they deserve. The department has often
been blamed for defects in the educational system of
the country, for which it is nowise responsible. The
proposal that the Director should be given the status
of a Joint-Secretary to Government would go far to
remedy the present ineffectiveness of the Educational
Department, and if this reform could be introduced
without difficulty, it would probably be wise not to go
further than this for the present. The ultimate, and
the best, solution of the problem will be to create an
independent Secretariat, and to make the head of the
Department a Secretary to Government. The work
of educational administration is so complex and covers
so wide an area, that it cannot be satisfactorily dealt
with by a Secretary, of whose duties it forms only a
small portion. This position has been accepted in
practically all other civilised countries, and its reason-
ableness cannot long be gainsaid in India.
As long as the functions of the Director-General of
Education are purely advisory, his influence is, I think,
entirely for good, but his designation, under those
circumstances, seems to be somewhat of a misnomer.
Such co-ordination of educational policy as is neces-
sary in India can be effected on the basis of the infor-
mation which it would be his duty to supply, and the
advice which he may be able to give to the Imperial
Government. Should, however, greater latitude be
left to the provincial Governments in their educational
policy, the Director-General’s functions will be neces-
sarily considerably diminished, audit becomes doubtful
whether the continuance of the post is necessary, at
least in its present form.
An Inspector of Schools should have a thorough
knowledge of the vernacular or vernaculars of his
division. Without such knowledge, he cannot pos-
sibly keep in direct touch with vernacular education
or control the work of his subordinate officers. An
adequate test of his knowledge of the language should,
therefore, be insisted on in the case of inspecting
officers.
Transfers of educational officers, though not so
frequent as in the case of civilians, still occur too often
for efficiency. Professors should, as far as possible,
be appointed permanently or at least for a long term
of years to the individual colleges. Transfers, especi-
ally in the middle of the session, are extremely
hampering to the work of the college, and have, as
already indicated, been till recently regulated too
much by mere departmental convenience.
The value of the work of Inspectors naturally in-
creases up to a certain point with their knowledge of
the division and their acquaintance with the language.
And though it is desirable in their case that their
experience should not be confined to one division,
their term of service in any one post should be of
reasonable length.
The management of primary and middle schools by
District Boards has not been a conspicuous success,
and under these circumstances, the delegation of
further powers to these bodies would not be justified.
The unsatisfactory state of the schools under their
was called and examined.
control is largely, but not entirely, due to want of
funds. When the management of primary education
was entrusted to the District Boards, a certain allot-
ment was made from provincial funds, and, in addi-
tion, certain sources of revenue—i.n., pounds and
ferries—were handed over to the Boards to enable
them to carry out the work. The revenue from
pounds and ferries was partly assigned to the cost of
education, partly to that of medical aid. These
revenues are of an expanding nature, and have in fact
expanded considerably of late years, but practically
no part of the increase has been devoted to education.
Presumably the intention of Government in assigning
these sources of revenue was to provide an automatic
increase of income to meet the natural increase in the
demands of education, and the failure of the Boards
to apply the available funds to this purpose can only
be taken as an indication of their general apathy in
educational matters. One way, for example, in which
the money at their disposal might profitably have been
employed, would have been to the improvement of
middle schools managed directly by the Boards. These
schools are intended to serve as model schools, but,
far from fulfilling this object, they are as badly off
as most of the schools of this class as regards build-
ings, equipment, and staff, and are indeed considerably
inferior to many of the institutions which are under
private management, and merely receive grants-in-aid.
The above remarks apply equally to Local Boards.
More might be done in the way of interesting the
members of village unions in village education. They
might, for example, be of use in selecting sites for
schools, supervising the work of the gurus—i.e., see-
ing that they attend regularly, etc.—and in other mat-
ters of this nature. When inspecting officers have
approached them in the proper spirit, members of these
unions have generally shown themselves willing to
contribute to the erection of patshalas either in
material work or cash. It would not be wise to en-
trust them for the present with any financial powers.
16534; A scheme has been put forward by the
Director of Public Instruction by which he would
become a Joint-Secretary to Government for the pur-
poses of education. In that proposal do you concur ?
—Yes.
16535. At the present moment, in making theii- pro-
posals, why do not the Education Department go to
the Secretary to Government, before they have actually
formulated them?—I understand that the Secretary
in the General Department prefers, before he passes
judgment on any proposal, that it should be put before
him in a cut-and dried form.
* 16536. Do you see any objection to the Head of
your Department conferring unofficially with the
Secretary to Government, before these proposals are
formulated?—No ; it would be an excellent thing.
16537. It might save, what the Director, calls,
laborious working up in the office of the various
schemes ?—It might to a certain extent, but still it
would not alter the procedure, which the Secretariat
wouid think necessary, namely, that when any pro-
posal did come from the office of the Director of
Public Instruction, it should, figst of all, be noted on
in the Secretary’s office.
16538. Who are the gentlemen who note on it in
the Secretary’s office ?—After a case has been very