DOI Seite / Zitierlink:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0163
ROYAL COMMISSION UPON DECENTRALIZATION.
157
sometimes unjustly, because he has been reinstated on
■appeal; not reinstated by the Local Government but
by the Government of India. I have in mind the case
of a Government servant in Burma who was dismissed
by his superior officer—the case went on appeal to the
Local Government of Burma which upheld the dis-
missal ; it then went on appeal to the Supreme Govern-
ment which reinstated the man.
18186. Have you had any experience of municipal
officials being reinstated after dismissal ?—I have no
knowledge of municipal officials being dismissed without
sufficient cause.
18187. Would you think it necessary in the case of
larger municipalities for the budget to be submitted to
the Commissioner at all ?—Yes, it is desirable.
18188. What form of control on his part would you
think legitimate ?—I would confine it to the allotments
to be made under different heads.
18189. Are you in favour of both Advisory and
Administrative Councils, or would you favour one or
other?—I would prefer Administrative Councils if
they could be had.
18190. Would they be Councils to be associated with
the Collector or the Commissioner or both ?—I think
they should be joined with the Collector as well as the
Commissioner.
18191. You would not go below the Collector ?—No.
18192. Would these bodies be nominated or elected,
or partly nominated and partly elected ?—It is
•desirable that they should be partly elected and partly
nominated.
18193. Would you be prepared to adopt the same
principle as is adopted with regard to District Boards
to-day ?—-With regard to District Boards half the
members are nominated and half elected, but what I
meant was a proportion of two-thirds and one-third.
In Local Boards the proportion is two-thirds and
one-third.
18194. Is their sphere of influence to be entirely
different from that of the District Board ?—Yes, the
District Board has some special functions under the
Local Self-Government Act and they have in their
hands the disposal of the cesses for the specific
purposes mentioned in the Act, whereas in the case of
Administrative or Advisory Councils they would be
bodies whom the Collector or Commissioner might
consult in various matters in connection with the
affairs of the district.
18195. What matters would you suggest should
-come before the Advisory or Administrative Council ?
■—The District Board, for instance, has nothing to do
with the police.
18196. Do you suggest with regard to police matters
that the Advisory Council should discuss with the
Collector the policy of the district ?—I will take a
concrete case. There is, for instance, the quartering
of a punitive police force on a particular area ; the
District Board has nothing to do with that because it
is outside its scope ; the municipality has nothing to
do with it. I think the Collector might with great
advantage to himself and to the people consult the
Administrative Council, or the Advisory Council,
whichever Council the Government may appoint, as
to whether the circumstances justified or necessitated
the quartering of that police force in that particular
area.
18197. Would the punitive police be quartered in
any case without the order of the Local Government ?
—No.
18198. So that all the Collector could do would be
to consult with the Council as to whether it was
necessary or not, and send on the opinion arrived at to
the Commissioner, who, in his turn, would consult
with his Council and they would come to a conclusion
as to whether it was desirable or not ; then the joint
deliberations of those two bodies would go on to the
Local Government ?—Yes. I have only given you an
example. I have not considered matters in detail as
to which may be within the scope of the Administrative
Council or the Advisory Council, or which may be
outside.
18199. Would not a Collector or a Commissioner, as
the case may be, be able to gauge the public feeling
with regard to the necessity or otherwise of that
punitive force ?—Our great grievance has been, and it
is one of the principal elements of the unpopularity of
British Rule in India, that the Collector depends more
or less entirely upon the reports of the police. It has
been our unfortunate experience that the word of a
police officer has more weight with the Collector than
any non-official information that he receives from the
people ; that has been the grievance of the people, and
therefore I gave it as an instance shewing one of the
acts associated with the arbitrary exercise of powers
vested in the Collector of harassing the people at the
instance of the police.
18200. Do not Collectors consult leading people
to-day ?—I do not say they do not; but they do not
consult them to the extent that they should, and they
do not consult the people they should.
18201. Would it not be possible to develop that
system independently, without constituting a formal
Council ?—Yes, it would be a less efficient method, but
it would be a better method than that which now
prevails.
18202. The advantage of a Council would be that
their advice would come with greater force and that in
many matters they would have administrative powers ?
—They would have greater force and lgreater weight,
and would be recognised by Government.
18203. But would they be recognised as representing
public opinion?—Yes, if you select your men and
allow your men to be elected.
18204. Would they meet in public ?—They need not
meet in public.
18205. Then they would meet in camera')—Yes, with
the Collector.
18206. What kind of executive matters would you
give them to decide ?—I have not carefully thought
about the special functions which might be entrusted
to those bodies, and probably I shall be doing injustice
to myself if I give an off-hand answer.
18207. Then you are not prepared to say at present
that there are any executive functions which could be
given to such a Council ?—Yes, I will cite an example
which is very fresh in my mind. Take the case of the
last Mymensingh riots. It was brought to the notice
of the Collector that certain notices which had been
posted in the town had been removed, and it is
admitted that in the dead of night he ordered a police
patrol composed of civil and military police to visit
the city. Now if, instead of doing that, he had had an
Advisory Council he could have sent for them and
ascertained the truth of the reports which came to him
and the means by which the mischief done could be
repaired, and the end that he had in view would have
been attained without the ill-effects which have been
caused by subsequent events.
18208. Was not that a case where prompt action was
required ?—Yes.
18209. On this Council you would have representa-
tives from all parts of the district—you would not
confine the representation to headquarters ?—No.
18210. Therefore in the case you cite might it not
have been difficult to call the Council together in
time ?—Yes, but there would always be some members
at headquarters who could be easily consulted.
18211. Is it not an objection with regard to an
Executive Council that very often prompt action is
required and therefore your Council, to be of any good,
must be on the spot ?—Yes.
18212. (Mr. Dutt.) You suggest power being given
to Local Governments to borrow within certain limits
for the purpose of spending the money on productive
works. Might that not lead to their undertaking
schemes which might prove to be losing concerns in
the end ?—-If it is controlled first by the Council, con-
stituted as I suggest, and secondly by the Supreme
Government, the risk of mistakes would be diminished.
18213. You do not want the control of the Supreme
Government over every particular work that is
undertaken ?—There must be the sanction of the
Supreme Government with regard to every work for
which money is borrowed.
18214. Sometimes there is a great deal of pressure
brought to bear on the Local Government for the
construction of works by men or by Companies who
are interested in such works?—If you gave Local
Governments power to borrow for such works, might
Balm
Bhupendra-
nath Basu.
28 Jan., 1908.
157
sometimes unjustly, because he has been reinstated on
■appeal; not reinstated by the Local Government but
by the Government of India. I have in mind the case
of a Government servant in Burma who was dismissed
by his superior officer—the case went on appeal to the
Local Government of Burma which upheld the dis-
missal ; it then went on appeal to the Supreme Govern-
ment which reinstated the man.
18186. Have you had any experience of municipal
officials being reinstated after dismissal ?—I have no
knowledge of municipal officials being dismissed without
sufficient cause.
18187. Would you think it necessary in the case of
larger municipalities for the budget to be submitted to
the Commissioner at all ?—Yes, it is desirable.
18188. What form of control on his part would you
think legitimate ?—I would confine it to the allotments
to be made under different heads.
18189. Are you in favour of both Advisory and
Administrative Councils, or would you favour one or
other?—I would prefer Administrative Councils if
they could be had.
18190. Would they be Councils to be associated with
the Collector or the Commissioner or both ?—I think
they should be joined with the Collector as well as the
Commissioner.
18191. You would not go below the Collector ?—No.
18192. Would these bodies be nominated or elected,
or partly nominated and partly elected ?—It is
•desirable that they should be partly elected and partly
nominated.
18193. Would you be prepared to adopt the same
principle as is adopted with regard to District Boards
to-day ?—-With regard to District Boards half the
members are nominated and half elected, but what I
meant was a proportion of two-thirds and one-third.
In Local Boards the proportion is two-thirds and
one-third.
18194. Is their sphere of influence to be entirely
different from that of the District Board ?—Yes, the
District Board has some special functions under the
Local Self-Government Act and they have in their
hands the disposal of the cesses for the specific
purposes mentioned in the Act, whereas in the case of
Administrative or Advisory Councils they would be
bodies whom the Collector or Commissioner might
consult in various matters in connection with the
affairs of the district.
18195. What matters would you suggest should
-come before the Advisory or Administrative Council ?
■—The District Board, for instance, has nothing to do
with the police.
18196. Do you suggest with regard to police matters
that the Advisory Council should discuss with the
Collector the policy of the district ?—I will take a
concrete case. There is, for instance, the quartering
of a punitive police force on a particular area ; the
District Board has nothing to do with that because it
is outside its scope ; the municipality has nothing to
do with it. I think the Collector might with great
advantage to himself and to the people consult the
Administrative Council, or the Advisory Council,
whichever Council the Government may appoint, as
to whether the circumstances justified or necessitated
the quartering of that police force in that particular
area.
18197. Would the punitive police be quartered in
any case without the order of the Local Government ?
—No.
18198. So that all the Collector could do would be
to consult with the Council as to whether it was
necessary or not, and send on the opinion arrived at to
the Commissioner, who, in his turn, would consult
with his Council and they would come to a conclusion
as to whether it was desirable or not ; then the joint
deliberations of those two bodies would go on to the
Local Government ?—Yes. I have only given you an
example. I have not considered matters in detail as
to which may be within the scope of the Administrative
Council or the Advisory Council, or which may be
outside.
18199. Would not a Collector or a Commissioner, as
the case may be, be able to gauge the public feeling
with regard to the necessity or otherwise of that
punitive force ?—Our great grievance has been, and it
is one of the principal elements of the unpopularity of
British Rule in India, that the Collector depends more
or less entirely upon the reports of the police. It has
been our unfortunate experience that the word of a
police officer has more weight with the Collector than
any non-official information that he receives from the
people ; that has been the grievance of the people, and
therefore I gave it as an instance shewing one of the
acts associated with the arbitrary exercise of powers
vested in the Collector of harassing the people at the
instance of the police.
18200. Do not Collectors consult leading people
to-day ?—I do not say they do not; but they do not
consult them to the extent that they should, and they
do not consult the people they should.
18201. Would it not be possible to develop that
system independently, without constituting a formal
Council ?—Yes, it would be a less efficient method, but
it would be a better method than that which now
prevails.
18202. The advantage of a Council would be that
their advice would come with greater force and that in
many matters they would have administrative powers ?
—They would have greater force and lgreater weight,
and would be recognised by Government.
18203. But would they be recognised as representing
public opinion?—Yes, if you select your men and
allow your men to be elected.
18204. Would they meet in public ?—They need not
meet in public.
18205. Then they would meet in camera')—Yes, with
the Collector.
18206. What kind of executive matters would you
give them to decide ?—I have not carefully thought
about the special functions which might be entrusted
to those bodies, and probably I shall be doing injustice
to myself if I give an off-hand answer.
18207. Then you are not prepared to say at present
that there are any executive functions which could be
given to such a Council ?—Yes, I will cite an example
which is very fresh in my mind. Take the case of the
last Mymensingh riots. It was brought to the notice
of the Collector that certain notices which had been
posted in the town had been removed, and it is
admitted that in the dead of night he ordered a police
patrol composed of civil and military police to visit
the city. Now if, instead of doing that, he had had an
Advisory Council he could have sent for them and
ascertained the truth of the reports which came to him
and the means by which the mischief done could be
repaired, and the end that he had in view would have
been attained without the ill-effects which have been
caused by subsequent events.
18208. Was not that a case where prompt action was
required ?—Yes.
18209. On this Council you would have representa-
tives from all parts of the district—you would not
confine the representation to headquarters ?—No.
18210. Therefore in the case you cite might it not
have been difficult to call the Council together in
time ?—Yes, but there would always be some members
at headquarters who could be easily consulted.
18211. Is it not an objection with regard to an
Executive Council that very often prompt action is
required and therefore your Council, to be of any good,
must be on the spot ?—Yes.
18212. (Mr. Dutt.) You suggest power being given
to Local Governments to borrow within certain limits
for the purpose of spending the money on productive
works. Might that not lead to their undertaking
schemes which might prove to be losing concerns in
the end ?—-If it is controlled first by the Council, con-
stituted as I suggest, and secondly by the Supreme
Government, the risk of mistakes would be diminished.
18213. You do not want the control of the Supreme
Government over every particular work that is
undertaken ?—There must be the sanction of the
Supreme Government with regard to every work for
which money is borrowed.
18214. Sometimes there is a great deal of pressure
brought to bear on the Local Government for the
construction of works by men or by Companies who
are interested in such works?—If you gave Local
Governments power to borrow for such works, might
Balm
Bhupendra-
nath Basu.
28 Jan., 1908.