DOI Page / Citation link:
https://doi.org/10.11588/diglit.68025#0195
BOY AL COMMISSION UPON DECENTBALIZATION.
189
19043. And that having ceased, have the cases also
ceased ?—There is still a good deal of misunderstanding
between Railway Officers and Civil Officers with regard
to the acquisition of land ; the Railway Officers take
possession before the Civil Officers think that they are
legally justified in doing so.
19044. Is it sometimes the case that an officer may
receive a reward for acquiring a knowledge of a lan-
guage, and that then he may be moved to a fresh
district at once and never return to the district the
language of which he had received a reward for learn-
ing ?—We have two main languages, and it would be
unlikely that an officer, having taken a degree of pro-
ficiency in a Bengal district, would be moved to Bihar
and remain there for the rest of his service and never
return to Bengal. Of course, it might happen that
after taking a degree he might be removed to a district
where the language in which he had become proficient
might not be spoken.
19045. There are a good many outlying districts.
Are rewards given for learning the languages in them ?
—Yes.
(The witness withdrew.)
Adjourned.
The Hon.
Mr. William
Charles
Macpherson.
29 Jan., 1908.
THIRTY-SIXTH DAY.
Calcutta, Friday, 31si January, 1908.
Present :
C. E. II. Hobhouse, Esq., M.P., Under-Secretary of State for India, Chairman.
Sir Frederic Lely, K.C.I.E., C.S.I. I W. S. Meyer, Esq., C.I.E., I.C.S.
Sir Steyning Edgerley, K.C.V.O., C.I.E., I.C.S. I W. L. Hichens, Esq.
R. C. Dutt, Esq., C.I.E.
Khan Bahadur Maulvi Sarfaraz Hose in Khan was called and examined.
19046. (Chairman.) You are the Vice-Chairman of
the Patna municipality ?—Yes.
The tendency of the Imperial Secretariat is to con-
sider matters too much from a purely departmental
standpoint, and the Government of India is too
impersonal and too much dominated by considerations
of revenue.
It is desirable to allow provincial Governments to
develop their administrations on their own lines,
adopting at their discretion such suggestions of reform
brought to their notice from other provinces as may
suit the requirements of their own provinces.
I do not advocate any curtailment of the right of
appeal, nor is it desirable that the appeals, when
preferred, should be accompanied by a certificate from
the authority passing the order appealed against.
There should be no right of appeal in cases of officers
drawing salaries below Rs. 200 per mensem.
Commissioners and Collectors should control to a
greater extent than at present the expenditure in their
divisions and districts by allowing the Commissioners
an allotment by provincial grants by percentage, and
by authorizing them to part with a certain percentage
of this allotment in favour of the Collectors of the
districts subordinate to them.
The influence of the Commissioner is sufficiently
strong in matters other than land revenue, and due
weight is given to his views in matters connected with
the police and the administration of criminal justice,
though such is not the case in matters connected
with excise, agriculture, and the administration of civil
justice.
Executive officers, specially the non-Indian officers,
have not sufficient opportunities for personal contact
with the people. The existing obstacles are overwork
and difference in social customs. To remove these
obstacles I should suggest a reduction in the Executive
Officer’s work and the diffusion of cheap and popular
education among the people.
The transfers of officers are unnecessarily frequent.
They can be reduced if the Commissioners and the
Collectors were given a voice in the matter.
Municipalities should have elected Chairmen, and
their present functions might be suitably extended.
I am in favour of the creation of Administrative
Councils to assist Divisional and District Officers, the
Divisional Councils to consist of District Officers and
one representative selected from each district, and the
31 Jan., 1908.
Khan
Bahadur
Maulvi
Sarfaraz
Hosein Khan,
District Councils of Sub-Divisional Officers and one
representative from every sub-division. The term of
office of the Councillors to be three years. Their
responsibilities should be in respect of finances,
schemes of sanitation, and matters generally affecting
the welfare of the people.
It would not be expedient to invest District Boards
with powers of supervision and control over smaller
municipalities.
It is desirable to give village communities greater
powers in the disposal of local affairs relating to
revenue and police, petty criminal cases, and sanitary
and educational matters.
19047. Is Patna a very large and important city ?—•
It is rather an old city than a wealthy one. Its
population is over 150,000.
19048. You do not advocate any curtailment of the
right of appeal, but you suggest that officers drawing
less than Rs. 200 per mensem should have no right of
appeal; will you tell us what you mean ?—I think the
Lieutenant-Governor has sufficient experience and a
sufficiently high position to be able to have control of
officers drawing less than Rs. 200.
19049. Would you give municipal servants any right
of appeal beyond the municipality itself ?—The
responsible officers such as the Secretary should have
the existing right of appeal, but the subordinates
should only have the right of appeal up to the Chair-
man of the municipality.
19050. Would the stoppage of appeal at that point
create discontent ?—I think not.
19051. Have you had any other knowledge of
Government beyond that of being Vice-Chairman of
the municipality ?—No, I have been Vice-Chairman
for ten years.
19052. Are the Executive Officers of Government at
all difficult of access ?—I think so.
19053. Is it equally difficult for the native population
to have access to Indian Collectors or Deputy-
Collectors?—I have no personal knowledge, but I
think it is.
19054. Both on the side of Indians and Europeans
is there a desire to have closer intercourse ?—Yes. The
principal obstacles in the way are social customs.
19055. Are they an insurmountable barrier ?—Not
insurmountable, but it will be so long as the caste
system—the purdah system and so on—continues.
That is likely to last a long time.
189
19043. And that having ceased, have the cases also
ceased ?—There is still a good deal of misunderstanding
between Railway Officers and Civil Officers with regard
to the acquisition of land ; the Railway Officers take
possession before the Civil Officers think that they are
legally justified in doing so.
19044. Is it sometimes the case that an officer may
receive a reward for acquiring a knowledge of a lan-
guage, and that then he may be moved to a fresh
district at once and never return to the district the
language of which he had received a reward for learn-
ing ?—We have two main languages, and it would be
unlikely that an officer, having taken a degree of pro-
ficiency in a Bengal district, would be moved to Bihar
and remain there for the rest of his service and never
return to Bengal. Of course, it might happen that
after taking a degree he might be removed to a district
where the language in which he had become proficient
might not be spoken.
19045. There are a good many outlying districts.
Are rewards given for learning the languages in them ?
—Yes.
(The witness withdrew.)
Adjourned.
The Hon.
Mr. William
Charles
Macpherson.
29 Jan., 1908.
THIRTY-SIXTH DAY.
Calcutta, Friday, 31si January, 1908.
Present :
C. E. II. Hobhouse, Esq., M.P., Under-Secretary of State for India, Chairman.
Sir Frederic Lely, K.C.I.E., C.S.I. I W. S. Meyer, Esq., C.I.E., I.C.S.
Sir Steyning Edgerley, K.C.V.O., C.I.E., I.C.S. I W. L. Hichens, Esq.
R. C. Dutt, Esq., C.I.E.
Khan Bahadur Maulvi Sarfaraz Hose in Khan was called and examined.
19046. (Chairman.) You are the Vice-Chairman of
the Patna municipality ?—Yes.
The tendency of the Imperial Secretariat is to con-
sider matters too much from a purely departmental
standpoint, and the Government of India is too
impersonal and too much dominated by considerations
of revenue.
It is desirable to allow provincial Governments to
develop their administrations on their own lines,
adopting at their discretion such suggestions of reform
brought to their notice from other provinces as may
suit the requirements of their own provinces.
I do not advocate any curtailment of the right of
appeal, nor is it desirable that the appeals, when
preferred, should be accompanied by a certificate from
the authority passing the order appealed against.
There should be no right of appeal in cases of officers
drawing salaries below Rs. 200 per mensem.
Commissioners and Collectors should control to a
greater extent than at present the expenditure in their
divisions and districts by allowing the Commissioners
an allotment by provincial grants by percentage, and
by authorizing them to part with a certain percentage
of this allotment in favour of the Collectors of the
districts subordinate to them.
The influence of the Commissioner is sufficiently
strong in matters other than land revenue, and due
weight is given to his views in matters connected with
the police and the administration of criminal justice,
though such is not the case in matters connected
with excise, agriculture, and the administration of civil
justice.
Executive officers, specially the non-Indian officers,
have not sufficient opportunities for personal contact
with the people. The existing obstacles are overwork
and difference in social customs. To remove these
obstacles I should suggest a reduction in the Executive
Officer’s work and the diffusion of cheap and popular
education among the people.
The transfers of officers are unnecessarily frequent.
They can be reduced if the Commissioners and the
Collectors were given a voice in the matter.
Municipalities should have elected Chairmen, and
their present functions might be suitably extended.
I am in favour of the creation of Administrative
Councils to assist Divisional and District Officers, the
Divisional Councils to consist of District Officers and
one representative selected from each district, and the
31 Jan., 1908.
Khan
Bahadur
Maulvi
Sarfaraz
Hosein Khan,
District Councils of Sub-Divisional Officers and one
representative from every sub-division. The term of
office of the Councillors to be three years. Their
responsibilities should be in respect of finances,
schemes of sanitation, and matters generally affecting
the welfare of the people.
It would not be expedient to invest District Boards
with powers of supervision and control over smaller
municipalities.
It is desirable to give village communities greater
powers in the disposal of local affairs relating to
revenue and police, petty criminal cases, and sanitary
and educational matters.
19047. Is Patna a very large and important city ?—•
It is rather an old city than a wealthy one. Its
population is over 150,000.
19048. You do not advocate any curtailment of the
right of appeal, but you suggest that officers drawing
less than Rs. 200 per mensem should have no right of
appeal; will you tell us what you mean ?—I think the
Lieutenant-Governor has sufficient experience and a
sufficiently high position to be able to have control of
officers drawing less than Rs. 200.
19049. Would you give municipal servants any right
of appeal beyond the municipality itself ?—The
responsible officers such as the Secretary should have
the existing right of appeal, but the subordinates
should only have the right of appeal up to the Chair-
man of the municipality.
19050. Would the stoppage of appeal at that point
create discontent ?—I think not.
19051. Have you had any other knowledge of
Government beyond that of being Vice-Chairman of
the municipality ?—No, I have been Vice-Chairman
for ten years.
19052. Are the Executive Officers of Government at
all difficult of access ?—I think so.
19053. Is it equally difficult for the native population
to have access to Indian Collectors or Deputy-
Collectors?—I have no personal knowledge, but I
think it is.
19054. Both on the side of Indians and Europeans
is there a desire to have closer intercourse ?—Yes. The
principal obstacles in the way are social customs.
19055. Are they an insurmountable barrier ?—Not
insurmountable, but it will be so long as the caste
system—the purdah system and so on—continues.
That is likely to last a long time.