Minutes of evidence taken before the Royal Commission upon Decentralization in Bengal of witnesses serving directly under the Government of India, volume 10 ([London?]: [House of Commons?], 1908)

32

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE:

Surgeon-
General
G. Bamford.
I Feb., 1908.

Questions about their pay and pension are settled
by the Government of India and the Secretary of
State.
43133. You are talking of the provincial establish-
ment ?—Yes. The rate at which they are promoted
and their pay and pensions are certainly settled by
the Government of India, and, I think, by the
Secretary of State.
43134. If they are settled by the Government of
India and the Secretary of State, why should they be
referred to the Director-General ?-—Because the Local
Government may come up (as it has come up only the
other day) and say : “ These men are not getting
enough pay ; we cannot get Hospital Assistants unless
we pay them more” ; that is referred to me, and I
advise the Home Department.
43135. What you mean is that you advise not on
small cases but on general principles?—On general
principles, certainly, sometimes on small cases in the
matter of allowances.
43136. You say that you also assist “ with reference
to questions relating to the organisation, maintenance
or control of medical institutions belonging to Local
Governments and Administrations.” Are these ques-
tions referred to you ?—If the Local Government has
to go to the Government of India the questions are
referred to me.
43137. Do these references often occur ?—Any large
expenditure on a medical college or hospital, or a
lunatic asylum, would be always referred to me.
43138. As to whether the structure and so forth is
suitable for medical purposes ?—Quite so, and whether
the expenditure is justified.
43139. When you go on tour do you tell the Local
Governments that you are coming ?—No.
43140. Having noticed certain failings in these
medical institutions, how do you draw attention to
them ?—I do not necessarily draw attention to them.
I am not allowed to make any remark. I can make a
remark to the Government of India, but, for instance,
if I go into a hospital I may not write in their book.
43141. You may not correspond with the provincial
Government ?—I have never corresponded with a pro-
vincial Government ; I understand that they do not
like it; unless they write to me I do not write to
them.
43142. When you draw the attention of the Govern-
ment of India to any matter, do they correspond with
the Local Government ?—They may or may not ; it
very rarely occurs, but it might be that I saw some-
thing that I thought ought to be altered ; in that case
I should report the matter to the Home Department ;
whether they took action or not would depend upon
them.
43143. It would pass then beyond your province?—
Yes; practically I might say something privately to the
local Administrative Medical Officer.
43144. Or you would probably write to him?—
Certainly ; but as a rule I speak to him at the time.
43145. Why are you consulted as to the personnel ?—
That is the only thing I am responsible for as regards
the civil line. I give advice about everything, but I
am mainly responsible for the personnel, that is to say
that the proper man gets promoted, and that the
rules applying to individuals are carried out. That is
really my chief function.
43146. There are a great number of references made
to the Government of India about giving special
allowances : could a great many of those rules be
relaxed from your point of view ?—No, I think not,
because in all these Medical Services it is important
that all officers should get allowances on the same
principles. Local conditions have to be considered,
but I think it is very important that all the officers
should be treated, as it were, on the same principle,
and feel that they are being treated on the same
principle.
43147. Could that not be laid down generally ?—
There are general rules to a certain extent.
43148. Could not the Local Government be trusted
to use with integrity these general rules ?—That may
be somewhat a matter of opinion. For instance, the
other day in Burma they proposed to give a Hospital

Assistant some allowance for teaching the police first
aid to the wounded ; the local Administrative Medical
Officer considered that it was no part of the Hospital
Assistant’s duty, and that therefore he ought to have
an allowance for it. Everywhere else in India it has
always been considered that it is his duty, if he is
attached to the police, to give them that sort of
instruction. That is a trifling matter, but if you
relax provisions in one province you would have all
the Hospital Assistants in the other provinces howling.
They have a common organization for the whole of
India so that they know everything that goes on.
43149. You say that while references are made to
you about promotion, pay, pension, conduct and so
forth of the Civil Surgeons ; on the other hand, the
promotion of Civil Assistant Surgeons is entirely in
the hands of the Local Government concerned ?—
Yes, that is under definite rules ; promotion is entirely
in their hands, but it is governed by certain rules.
Reference is made to the Government of India only
when they want a change of rules.
43150. Does the system by which the Government
of India selects officers who are placed at the disposal
of the provincial Governments work well ?—It works
very well.
43151. Do you have complaints about it from the
provincial Governments about the quality of the
officers they get ?—Very rarely.
43152. Or as to their fitness to undertake the duties?
—You are speaking now of Civil Surgeons; very
seldom we have complaints ; of course there may be
cases where a man does not commend himself to the
Local Government as a suitable man.
43153. You have two branches of the Indian Medical
Service, one civil and the other military ; does the
system work equally well in both branches ?—I only
select men from the military and put them into civil
employment.
43154. As a rule, do they say that the officer you
send is the class of man they want ?—There are very
rarely complaints ; I have occasionally had a com-
plaint.
43155. When a complaint reaches you what action
can you take ?—It depends how it reaches me ; if they
come up to the Government of India and say, “ This
man is absolutely unsuitable,” it would have to be
considered. .
43156. You mean a private communication ?—A
private communication is generally made through the
local Administrative Medical Officer.
43157. The Provincial Governments have no reason
to complain in your judgment as to the working of
the present system?—No ; it is remarkably seldom
that we do get complaints, when you consider that we
have natives and other people in the Medical Service.
43158. You select and train men for the different
departments ?—Yes.
43159. Do you take them from the provincial Govern-
ment ?-—No, from the military as a rule ; I might take
them from a provincial Government.
43160. Then with regard to the special appointments
—appointments to professorial chairs—you say, “ The
Government of India must necessarily be open to the
charge which has been levelled at it at different times .
from different quarters of making these important
offices mere conveniences of its Medical Service ” ?—
The charge is often made.
43161. Then it would appear that the Government
of India are not always impeccable. Do you get
complaints from the provincial Governments that they
do not always get the best kind of men ? —No, it is the
other way ; it is the Local Government that complains
that we select men.
43162. And that having selected men you do not
always give them the best men ?—Never ; they cannot
say that we do not give them the best men.
43163. Then it is outside people who complain?—
That is it.
43164. The Director-General has to sanction every
application for leave ?—He has to countersign it.
43165. You say that that is very often a pure
formality ?—I will not say that ; I do not refuse to
countersign unless I know that giving them up another
officer is objectionable.