ROYAL COMMISSION UPON DECENTRALIZATION.

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45216. You would not feel called upon to object to
it on the ground of its novelty or its inappropriate-
ness ?—1 do not think so.
45217. Generally, is interference with a budget
purely financial, and is it embodied in the three points
which you mention ?—That is so.
45216. With regard to the alienation of land, you
said you were in favour of extending the powers of the
Local Government ?—Yes, the present powers are too
restricted.
45219. Do you not consider that there is a consider-
able difference between alienation of land and expen-
diture of money ; alienation of land is irretrievable,
whereas money extravagance can be rectified by a
little economy ?—Quite so ; the alienation of land is a
permanently recurring loss.
45220. Therefore are you of opinion that the right
of alienation of land should be very carefully
guarded ?—Yes, I think so.
45221. And perhaps you would not very strongly
object even if it was proposed to retain the provincial
rights as they are?—One element in the restriction
now imposed is administrative, and if it is necessary
for administrative reasons to watch it with the same
care as at present, this department would not have
anything to say, but if the administrative objections
are waived, the feeling of this department is in favour
of a moderate increase in the limits.
45222. Can you tell me whether anything has been
done, or is about to be done, with reference to the
local cesses in Bengal in the way of readjusting them
in a more satisfactory manner ?—-As regards the Public
Works Cess and the Road Cess, certain recommenda-
tions were submitted to the Secretary of State, but
action had to be postponed owing to the present
financial pressure.
45223. Are they at present in abeyance ?—Yes. I
spoke with some reservation because I did not know to
what extent you wished a description of what was
proposed. What has been proposed is that the two
separate cesses, as such, should be abolished, that an
amalgamated cess equivalent to the two should be
imposed, and should be made over fully to the control
of the District Boards. That is at present in abeyance,
because we cannot afford to help the Local Boards to
the extent necessary.
45224. What is the present policy as to feeder rail-
ways ?—It is rather in a state of flux. The branch
lines have hitherto been handed over to private enter-
prise in accordance with certain defined terms which
are. now regarded as unduly strict ; these branch line
terms are now being revised. Light railways which
would possibly be of purely local interest are now
being regarded as matters which might reasonably
concern provincial Governments, and might reasonably
be assisted by guarantees from provincial revenues ;
but both these questions are still under discussion, and
for that reason it is difficult to explain exactly what
the policy is.
45225. Are you prepared to give any preference to
the alternative methods of guarantee by a Local Board
or a rebate on traffic with a main line ?—That would
be very much a matter of arrangement with the main
line.
45226. As the promoters may arrange ?—Yes.
45227. But on the general question would you
admit that the advantage of stimulating local senti-
ment and eliciting local capital is worth making an
effort to obtain ? —Yes, I think that is a very reason-
able employment for the surpluses of rich District
Boards, for instance, in parts of India where they
have not the power to impose a special cess.
45228. It is worth making an effort to attain ?■—I
think so.
45229. Complaint has been made that the local
Audit Officers very often think a great deal more of
their own convenience than anyone else’s and that
their orders are often unnecessary and peremptory
in tone, and generally that in minor matters the hand
of the babu is visible ; would you approve of a sug-
gestion that audit offices, in their rules and methods,
should be overhauled by an expert with a view to
revision, and possible simplification, as to accounts and
vouchers and so on ?—I should be very glad to see
anything in the way of simplification.
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45230. Would it be worth while to have a thorough
overhauling ? Is not the system the growth of many
years ?—Yes ; it is subjected to continuous criticism
by the headquarters staff, and I think that is essen-
tially the function of the Comptroller and Auditor
General ; but at the same time I think I must admit
that the whole tendency is towards increasing com-
plication. As regards discourtesy, of course, that is a
matter which must be dealt with when individual cases
are found.
45231. But is it not generally believed that Audit
Officers are often fettered by unnecessary technical
rules and methods which perhaps might be better for
revision ?—Perhaps the suggestion of Mr. Meyer
might go far towards remedying that, that is to say,
if we had an imperial code and separate provincial
codes.
45232. That would involve an examination by an
expert pretty much in the same way that I have
suggested ?—Yes, that would involve examination,
but in the department.
45233. (J/r. Dutt.) On the other hand, it was sug-
gested that in some provinces the Audit Officers and
the Accountant General might in some cases give a
somewhat tender interpretation to the existing rules
—do you think that is possible ?—As 1 have attempted
to show, I think the essence of audit is rigidity, and I
would rather see the rules relaxed and made more
sympathetic, than see any change of attitude on the
part of the Accountant-General or Audit Officers.
45234. The rules being there, and the Accountant-
General being there, you think it his duty to interpret
them strictly, and that he would not be an efficient
Accountant-General if he did not do so ?—Quite so.
45235. You have said that you have no objection to
the notes of Inspectors-General being sent to the
Local Governments ; is that not done now when it is
proposed to take any action upon them ?—My per-
sonal experience is confined to the one Inspector-
General in this Department, and so far he is only in a
state of pupilage.
45236. Supposing your Inspector-General did sub-
mit some suggestions, and the Government of India
thought it worth while that some action should be
taken, do you not think that the Government of India
would, in that case, send a copy of the note to the
provincial Government before finally taking any
action ?—I think so.
45237. But you would not suggest that the notes
should be sent to the provincial Government by the
Inspector-General direct before sending them on to
the Government of India ?—No.
45238. With regard to loans made by Local Govern-
ments to local bodies, you say that the Government of
India have to find the money, but is that always the
case ?—Yes, unless the local body goes into the open
market.
45239. Does not the provincial Government some-
times grant loans to local bodies ?—Yes, but it does so
from a loan account which is placed at its disposal out
of the imperial cash balances.
45240. So that in every case in which a loan is made
to a local body it is the Government of India which
finds the money ?—Yes.
45241. You told us that you have no objection to
Local Governments being invested with powers to
borrow small sums for works of public utility ?—From
the Government of India, yes.
45241a. Would you not empower the Local Govern-
ment to borrow in the open market ?—No, I do not at
all like the idea of their going on the open market.
I think it would be wasteful.
45242. And local loans would tend to clash with
the loans of the Government of India?—Yes, you
might have five or six Local Governments going on to
the market at the same time as we were going our-
selves ; furthermore, I think it would be wasteful,
because they are not likely to get the market on better
terms than we do ; their ostensible security would not
be regarded by the market as quite so good as ours,
and therefore they would have to pay more for their
loans.
45243. Would not it also have the effect of adding
to the indebtedness of the country if all the Local
T

Mr. J. S.
Meston.
Apr., 1908.